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I really need your help. California CHP says it is illegal for me as a private limo owner - not for hire - to drink alcohol in my stretch even though there is a divider - can someone help me here? We have called the California DMV and everyone is dumbfounded over there and no one gives me a straight answer. Some people tell me to put a license plate frame on that says private car not for hire, others tell me I need a TCP number, but I am not for hire!!! This limo is for use by me the CEO of my company and my family - Can anyone help me here? I feel that you are all the experts and I need some clarification here! If you could tell me what I need or not need it would be appreciated -
thx
Don Blanton, CEO, The WOW Factor, Inc.

I hate to be the one to disagree with my colleagues.
It is my view that as the vehicle is a private vehicle the CHP have no options on alchohol in the back.
I would strongly advise the owner to get a legal opinion from an attorney specialising in transportation law.
Dick Hall

Operating a private "Not for hire limo" does not need to be registered as a hire limo. TCP Numbers are used for hire limousines.
Then secondly, marking "not for hire" has absolutely nothing to do with open contents of alcohol in vehicle.
The question which needs to be addressed to the DMV is, "Are open contents of alcohol legal in a motor vehicle, as long as the driver is not particpating in the state of CA?"
If No, then the next question is, "does the open contents also apply to a limousine, which has a secure divider between operator and driver?"
If NO, then I would say, you may drink without a problem.
However, my guidance is that having legal limo tint adds privacy.
I would also recommend having a copy of the law photocopied and available at all times.
Personally, I dont see why the person who is in the back, not be allowed to drink. Its no different, when the vehicle is for hire, or not for hire.
Anyways, Hope you get the answers you need.
CSL Chauffeured Transportation
(718)460-9748
(323)960-7838
www.1-866-citysedans.com

The only way I can see round this is to have all the windows behind the driver dark tinted and if stopped all passengers put open containers in the rear trash chute before coming to a halt, it may not be legal but its the only way I see that your passengers can drink and get away with it, unless you go to the extent of registering the Limo as a "For Hire" Limousine.

> CHP says it is illegal for me as a private limo owner to
> drink alcohol in my stretch even though there is a divider
That is correct Don, A divider has no bearing on this issue. You are simply a private vehicle and no one in a private vehicle (with an RV and housecar being the exception) can have any open containers in the passenger area. I think a divider used to be a requirement in the Vehicle code, but I no longer see any mention of it. You will note the following law:

VC23229. (a) Except as provided in Section 23229.1 (minors not allowed alcohol and Limos can keep alcohol in a locked compartment in the passenger area) , Sections 23221 (passengers cannot drink) and 23223 (open container) do not apply to passengers in any bus, taxicab, or limousine for hire licensed to transport passengers pursuant to the Public Utilities Code or proper local authority, or the living quarters of a housecar or camper.
(b) Except as provided in Section 23229.1, Section 23225 does not apply to the driver or owner of a bus, taxicab, or limousine for hire
licensed to transport passengers pursuant to the Public Utilities Code or proper local authority.

SO you see a Charter Party Permitted bus with no divider can still have alcohol served in the rear. So the Divider has no bearing. I guess one approach is to see what the definition of a "House Car" is. Perhaps you could register your limo as a house car?? I looked for a definition but could not find one?? But by the sound of one section I saw it said no dealer could sell a house car without listing the modifications made to it, so it sounded like a base vehicle that has been modified by a secondary manufacture which is what krystal does for example. Maybe all you have to do is hook up a sink and a toilet somewhere and you have a housecar!

EDIT: Found the definition:
VC362. A "house car" is a motor vehicle originally designed, or
permanently altered, and equipped for human habitation, or to which a
camper has been permanently attached. A motor vehicle to which a
camper has been temporarily attached is not a house car except that,
for the purposes of Division 11 (commencing with Section 21000) and
Division 12 (commencing with Section 24000), a motor vehicle equipped
with a camper having an axle that is designed to support a portion
of the weight of the camper unit shall be considered a three-axle
house car regardless of the method of attachment or manner of
registration. A house car shall not be deemed to be a motortruck.


> Some people tell me to put a license plate frame on
> that says private car not for hire
I do not see where that would do anything. They do the same thing for tow trucks but that is more having to do with them not having to have all the insurance that goes along with a commercial tow truck.


> others tell me I need a TCP number, but I am not for hire!!!
You can have a TCP number and still not be for hire. Since Limos are only allowed to transport on a prearranged basis, if no one ever prearranges with you then you have no problem (You have no obligation to serve the public like a taxi does). The down side of this is now you have to follow all of the same regulations we do in reguards to the people you hire to drive the limo. DMV Pull notice (monitors driving records), Drug Testing, Workmans Comp, CHP Motor carrier registration. And of course higher insurance premiums most likely. And if you wanted to be droped off at LAX you would have to register with them also.


> This limo is for use by me the CEO of my company and my family
Is it really that important that you drink then? Get ripped at home then go, stop at a bar if your buzz is wearing off. If this is your biggest problem in life, I want to have your life!!


Anyone else have any way around this!!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Steve W.,