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Question:
For those of you who offer sedan service what is you minimum airport transfer rate for service under 20 miles from the airport?

Choices:
$35.00
$45.00
$55.00
$65.00
more than $65.00

 

The key is the spread you wish to have between your expenses and your gross. It is very good & proper and a sign of maturation to fire certain clients that can't and won't pay your bill of fare.

quote:

Originally posted by TxLimoGuy:
Minimum base rate in Austin is $45 with a one hour minimum. There are a few companies that charge that. They have one car.

Interesting thing about Houston is that they are stuck with a 2 hour minimum charge. That truly sucks. I would have fought that before I fought an increase in my base to $55-$60, or at least have fought it at the same time... With their base of $60 and 2 hours min it is still only $30 an hour. Damn cheap for long trips, but quite an increase percentage-wise from their previous minimum on short trips of just $45 for 2 hours.

Correct on the point that Houstons fight should of been the 2 hour minimum. A minimum pricing of say $45. per trip or hour would not sting as bad as $70. regardless of doing a 15 min run or a 2 hour run. Grat incuded or not.

So I'm not missunderstood, I am not an advocate for low ball pricing. I just posted results of a survey. If someone calls & demands chauffeured driven luxury car service with a coffee & newspaper in the back seat, they should & do pay the price for that service. I am against local governments setting pricing minimums. If Tony wants to offer a Free Transfer to a bride & groom for booking a 3 car wedding, Tony should be able to do so without fear of retribution. Same goes for offering discounts or freebies for frequent travelers. Bottom line is that we contract out transportation or in other words enter into charter agreements with our customers that through considerable expense, solicit for and local agencies have no right to interfere with the business and pricing arrangements.

Austin has a minimum of $45., Tampa a minimum of $40.. An operator can quote these prices as inclusive unless Austin has a set gratuity amount also.

I read Austins ordinance awhile back & do like one portion where services are broken down. A limo service must have a stretch prior to sedan, Shuttles must have a minimum number in the fleet and as I remember the catch all is "charters" with vehicles with a capacity of 7 or more. Gives the traveling folks options to choose from.

As a heads up, I sent a letter off a few weeks ago to the Anti Trust Div of the DOJ regarding this type issue and others including locals regulating intrastate carriers, minimum pricing to protect cabs at the expense of the consumers etc.. Received word yesterday that my letter has cleared 1st hurdle and has been sent to the legal division.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: gunny,

quote:

Originally posted by TxLimoGuy:
The $70 Houston rate does include gratuity and airport taxes so the effective base rate is about $55-$60. This is still less than the average rate for a similar 15 minute sedan transfer in neighboring Austin.

quote:

Originally posted by gunny:
In the new LCT, a story ran about the fight in Houston. Based on the minimum pricing of $70. Houston may have some of the highest pricing set by regulatory agencies in the nation especially if the runs are under 10 miles from airport to city hotels and residences. Mandatory minimum pricing creates zones of protection for cabs.

Tony,
Under Austin Ordinance, what is the minimum rate charge?

quote:

Originally posted by Steve W.:
Hey Gunny my survey of Limos.com for my area showed these prices.

A 42 mile trip to LAX in a sedan
15% gratuity assumed
ALL claimed 03 and newer cars, do not know what would actually show up.

Total charges for one way trip:
$74.75
$86.25
$90.00
$90.85
$100.00
$130.00

quite a spread!

These prices include the grat? Knock out high & low & it's an average of $90. for a 2 hour gig (yeah, right, in LA traffic) or $45. per hour. About the same average I ran across for the 10 or less mile runs in multiple states. If the pricing includes grat, than it's an even lower base charge. Of course there is a lot more time involved than just doing the drop from point "A" to airport and the drive back to home base.

What would be neat to do next Steve is to find out what the meter charge for a cab would be to run the same distance.

Based on established pricing in Tampa, a luxury cab ride of 40 miles would cost $93.75 and a regular cab $81.35 (meter charges).

In the new LCT, a story ran about the fight in Houston. Based on the minimum pricing of $70. Houston may have some of the highest pricing set by regulatory agencies in the nation especially if the runs are under 10 miles from airport to city hotels and residences. Mandatory minimum pricing creates zones of protection for cabs.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: gunny,

Hey Gunny my survey of Limos.com for my area showed these prices.

A 42 mile trip to LAX in a sedan
15% gratuity assumed
ALL claimed 03 and newer cars, do not know what would actually show up.

Total charges for one way trip:
$74.75
$86.25
$90.00
$90.85
$100.00
$130.00

quite a spread!

Gunny, As long as the car looks as good as it CAN and the CHAUFFEUR provides impeccable service you are in business. Beater Cars and "drivers" are sharecropper specials....

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Dean Schuler,

quote:

Originally posted by gunny:

quote:

Originally posted by TxLimoGuy:
Basic economic theory. There are suppliers willing to provide a service or product all the way up and down the price line. Some will supply their service below their own internal breakeven point but they are eventually doomed to failure.

I would guess many in the industry have no idea what their breakeven point on a run is, much less how to caluclate it. Others know exactly what it is and shift the cost burden to a less educated independent contractor in order to keep their price low.

The market does not demand a certain price! Prices exist on an infinite curve. Suppliers get to choose at what point on the price curve they will provide a service or product as each customer get to choose at what point on the price line they are willing to pay for the service. Some will pay more than others.

We each get to choose at what point on that curve we will supply our service or product. Choose wisely. Are you above breakeven?

Gunny's source Denver Quote: $40
Empire: $143
Carey: $143

Each chose their point on the curve. Wonder who takes more home?

And what does it cost that franchised operator to get that $143. job? And how many 10 mile 30 min $143 jobs is that operator doing each day or week for that matter? How many local calls from own advertising does he/she charge $143.? How many non-Carey referred per week booked at the local market price?

It wasn't Gunny's source as I did not specifically search for the lowest bid as you searched for the highest. My source is just a random sampling across the nation (whoever reponded with quotes). A Carey franchisee could of responded and maybe even did and the pricing would of changed. Bottom line is one could hit 20 metro areas throw out the high and low and I'll bet the pricing would not budge significantly.

There are small operators a few years in business making a living off farmouts & running 3-4 year old sedans running a classier act than big pocketed operators with high overhead. Most success stories didn't start out of the gates with brand new fleets but of more humble beginnings.

This answer reminds me of why I'm in the Luxury Limousine Service and not a shuttle company or a people mover service.

with empire or carey, what you really should do is call up and ask what they charge for large corporate accounts. try...
Empire - Exxon
Carey - FedEx

In the larger city markets are the bigger discounts.
They suddenly wont seem so "high-end"

And empire is a Jersey company at heart... and 90 percent of there work is done there.. When you hear Jersey company, its "black car" rates.
I heard in atlanta they have 3 cars...

At carey you will be lucky to get the same rate twice... everything is so unorganized there... One franchise has no idea what the other is doing...

quote:

Originally posted by TxLimoGuy:
Basic economic theory. There are suppliers willing to provide a service or product all the way up and down the price line. Some will supply their service below their own internal breakeven point but they are eventually doomed to failure.

I would guess many in the industry have no idea what their breakeven point on a run is, much less how to caluclate it. Others know exactly what it is and shift the cost burden to a less educated independent contractor in order to keep their price low.

The market does not demand a certain price! Prices exist on an infinite curve. Suppliers get to choose at what point on the price curve they will provide a service or product as each customer get to choose at what point on the price line they are willing to pay for the service. Some will pay more than others.

We each get to choose at what point on that curve we will supply our service or product. Choose wisely. Are you above breakeven?

Gunny's source Denver Quote: $40
Empire: $143
Carey: $143

Each chose their point on the curve. Wonder who takes more home?

And what does it cost that franchised operator to get that $143. job? And how many 10 mile 30 min $143 jobs is that operator doing each day or week for that matter? How many local calls from own advertising does he/she charge $143.? How many non-Carey referred per week booked at the local market price?

It wasn't Gunny's source as I did not specifically search for the lowest bid as you searched for the highest. My source is just a random sampling across the nation (whoever reponded with quotes). A Carey franchisee could of responded and maybe even did and the pricing would of changed. Bottom line is one could hit 20 metro areas throw out the high and low and I'll bet the pricing would not budge significantly.

There are small operators a few years in business making a living off farmouts & running 3-4 year old sedans running a classier act than big pocketed operators with high overhead. Most success stories didn't start out of the gates with brand new fleets but of more humble beginnings.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: gunny,

quote:

Originally posted by Dean Schuler:
Gunny, Were those prices inclusive or +++ ? Perhaps they are representative prices for the sake of debate. There is a % of clients that pay much more in every market and these clients cannot be marketed by price. I share this by long experience. In my small market, most don't play "livery". The markets you mentioned have numerous good livery operators. Just an observation...

Prices listed are base.

Gunny, Were those prices inclusive or +++ ? Perhaps they are representative prices for the sake of debate. There is a % of clients that pay much more in every market and these clients cannot be marketed by price. I share this by long experience. In my small market, most don't play "livery". The markets you mentioned have numerous good livery operators. Just an observation...

quote:

Originally posted by TxLimoGuy:
This is not rocket science. Everyone here knows approximately what it costs to run an operation. Borders are irrelevent.

Your anecdotal comparisions without data on the subject companies are interesting but a bit pointless. For example, running with ICs or flat rate pay can sway the data and such pricing is often to the detriment of the chauffeur as many friends here continually remind us. Yes the company survives, but at whose expense? Just an example, not saying that was the case with yours. But how can we compare if we don't know all the details?

Will not name the site or who performed the survey of requesting quotes. Will say similar to limos.com.

I went on the web & pulled hotel zips that are located approximately 10 miles from the APs of the cities I posted.
Received 26 quotes with the high of $55.00 (LA) and a low of $40.00 (Denver). I think that LA, Denver, Chicago, Atlanta, Newark & Dallas is a good cross section example of larger major metro areas.

Are these 26 companies bottom feeding scums? Who knows, the response quotes were very professional with many offering 04/05 TCs . I will not pass that judgement nor should anyone else.

At least unless one is man enough to look at one in the eye and say it.

quote:

Originally posted by TxLimoGuy:
Gunny, it IS possible to have a discussion here without insults.

Time-in is irrelevent when you talk with wise industry longtimers on a regular basis.

We ALL know services that charge $80 for a 3 horu drive. But how long will they last?

Last time I checked most legit companies in Austin charge $75-$85 for a 20 minute AP xfer from AUS to downtown. There are a few bottome feeders for $45. I have seen rates over $100 for the same transfer. We charge $77.50.

A 50 minute ride (ie to New Braunfels or Driftwood) will cost you $140. Any other questions?

Hope that saved you some phone calls.

When you group operators pricing in heavily competitive markets as "bottom feeders" without knowing who they are or what type of operations they are running, it is an insult to the industry.

One charging $90. for runs that last 2-3 hours depending on Long Island Traffic not Austin has been in business feeding 10 drivers for over 20 years. As one who busted his ass for 7 years helping run the show that eventually earned that LCT Award, I am insulted that because the market demands a price below what could be garnered in Austin is labeled a "bottom feeder". So who insulted who?

The problem with individuals on this site, they have no clue outside their own borders.

quote:

Originally posted by TxLimoGuy:
To get a valid INDUSTRY comparison you can not simply look at the bottom feeders/cut rate operators. You must get an average that includes that top echelon as well.

I personally don't compare our service or rates to the guy running one old towncar for a flat $45. It is a different business model.

quote:

Originally posted by gunny:

What would make that valid? If a consumer picked up the yellow pages and looked under limo or AP service they'd be just 1 of many. In some large markets, 0 of many.

Next time we run our little survey we'll make sure that Austin is included. Limos. or is it APServices.?

How in the hell do you know if the services that are on the site that these quotes were obtained from are bottom feeders? You do not have enough Time In to judge!

I know of services doing 40-50 mile runs (2-3 hrs driving) at $80-90 that I will stack against any Yuppy or Carey operation any day of the week. One even an LCT operator of the year. Do we call him a bottom feeder? And when he won that in 03 he was getting about $70. for the 40-50 mile hike. Takes more than reading books, new vehicles and high prices to run a class operation.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: gunny,

I viewed a Black Town Car today at my mechanic's shop that had a variety of maladies and dents everywhere-especially around the right rear door. I asked my mechanic who owned it so I would be sure to never book the company. He told me it was " an airport car" and gave me the company name. Definitely a sharecropper special. And yes, there was a week old newspaper in the back seat ! PS The airport rate for this car is $28.00 for one person.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Dean Schuler,

To reply to Tony: I got paid a flat $15.00 per run. four of these were corporate and had a flat tip of aproximatly $15.00 each. The one was a Corporate account but the tip was open. I got $60.00 because I was able to pick up the Client at a place we normally cannot pick up at.

This Company tells me I am an IC even though I know the way he has it set up will never pass with the IRS or the State of Michigan. I just let him have his fun for now by paying me and other "Employee's" as IC's. He will end up paying when they catch up with him. He in reality ended up paying out $135.00 in wages ( no tax, no comp. because he beleives he is an IC operator) so, for now, He did make a few Bucks on the deal.

Under Michigan Law, I was on duty 16.5 hours. I did have 2.5 hours of down time close to the Base but I had to make a car switch during that time so .5 hours will be charged to that. so basicly 14.5 hours on duty.

Federal minimum wage is $5.15 per hour X 14.5 hours = $74.67. I did make better than minimum wage, $135.00 plus $60.00 cash tip = $195.00 for the day or $13.44 per hour. Nothing to sneeze at, after all it is a lot better than no job at all.

quote:

Originally posted by Wade Randolph:

quote:

Originally posted by gunny:

quote:

Originally posted by TxLimoGuy:
Get the same quotes from Empire, Carey and Dav-El for a valid comparison.

What would make that valid? If a consumer picked up the yellow pages and looked under limo or AP service they'd be just 1 of many. In some large markets, 0 of many.

Gunny the movers and shakers of corporate american don't use the yellow pages. I am a firm believe of the yellow pages don't get me wrong but my best sedan work doesn't come from the yellow pages. I can promise you the major networks corporate business doesn't come from the yellow pages either. You know this brings to mind that there are really two different segments of the sedan business. The networks get business via referrals and live salespeople. They are selling corporate america a "peace of mind" experience. Mom and pop going through the yellow pages are looking for a "ride". Big difference.

Wade,
The company I managed on LI had a portfolio of 250 corporates with no help from the Careys of the world including big blue, PB, Sasson, Este Lauder, Chase etc.. And correct, the CEOs didn't let their fingers do the walking. It's the secretaries fingers that do the walking. And their jobs are finding the boss reliable service at reasonable costs.

Tampa & Orlando reports 70-80% coming & going are "leisure travelers". That is a big difference from corporates. Me, I'm stuck in 99.9% leisure land.

So, when the few "corporate" providers start throwing heavy quotes, they must be reminded that a great deal of others are dealing with the real world of "no tax write off" transportation for the poor folk. Because I'd be willing to bet that if it came out of pockets and not the companies operating fund, many of those uppity suits would be jumping in a cab.

quote:

Originally posted by gunny:

quote:

Originally posted by TxLimoGuy:
Get the same quotes from Empire, Carey and Dav-El for a valid comparison.

What would make that valid? If a consumer picked up the yellow pages and looked under limo or AP service they'd be just 1 of many. In some large markets, 0 of many.

Gunny the movers and shakers of corporate american don't use the yellow pages. I am a firm believe of the yellow pages don't get me wrong but my best sedan work doesn't come from the yellow pages. I can promise you the major networks corporate business doesn't come from the yellow pages either. You know this brings to mind that there are really two different segments of the sedan business. The networks get business via referrals and live salespeople. They are selling corporate america a "peace of mind" experience. Mom and pop going through the yellow pages are looking for a "ride". Big difference.

quote:

Originally posted by TxLimoGuy:
Get the same quotes from Empire, Carey and Dav-El for a valid comparison.

What would make that valid? If a consumer picked up the yellow pages and looked under limo or AP service they'd be just 1 of many. In some large markets, 0 of many.