While the vast Majority of Business's work hard and do excellent work over all there are certainly areas of improvement in our Limousine community which could use some attention. One of them is (Over stating Capacity) in the Stretch's.

One has only to view some company web sites and certain Pay for performance web sites to see what I am talking about.

120 inch stretches which Typically come from the Manufacture with a 7 Seat Max Capacity in the back are being advertised as 10 Pac’s and 100 inch stretch’s with a Max rateing of 6 are being advertised as being able to hold 8 adults.

While it is true that one could get that many people inside the stretch’s , It is both unsafe and a smear upon those of us who legitimately follow the Legal Limits of their Capacity.

This is nothing new and many business’s in an attempt to gain business over state their capacity in order to not have to Move clients into a larger Limousine which costs more and reduces the likelihood of booking a job due to the extra expense of using that larger Limousine, knowing full well that many clients out there are (Price Shopping)!

It would seem to me that some of those same companies who over state their Capacity if they simply stayed within the Legal Capacity and up sold their services, they would have Happier clients and more comfortable clients and we all know that Happy clients are repeat clients in the long run.

In an industry which has had its issues and where World Class Service and Luxury use to be the norm, now seem relegated to simply trying to gain the most amount of business possible without deference to the client and their over all experience in an attempt to gain the almighty Dollar!

Lets bring World Class Service and Luxury Back where it belongs. Face facts; we spend on average $69,000 and up for a 120 inch Stretch Limousine, $80,000 and up for a 140 inch stretch and $90 - $130,000 for a 180 to 200 inch stretch Limousine and certainly we all want to get our money back out of that huge investment as soon as possible, but can we truthfully afford to tell those little white lies in order to gain customers and place them in vehicles which are not rated for the size and occupancy level which some Operators advertise their Limousines for?

When that Accident occurs and at some point it certainly will what will you tell the insurance company or worse yet, what will you tell the Family of a loved one who was not able to have a seat belt because you over booked the Seating Capacity of your limousine and NOW you face a Multi Million Dollar Law suit? It ought to make you think a bit!

agreed

Well Dave, I don't know what else to say. If you want to let your customers set the rules, so be it.

What would a charter boat company tell you if you booked a party barge rated for 8 and showed up with 12? How about an airline?

At any rate, this thread was about limo operators who advertise 8 pax vehicles as 10 pax and bottom line is that is wrong.

We got off on a tangent about passengers showing up with more people - that is a seperate issue and all companies should have policies on how to handle these situations.

I am done with this topic.

Yes I know you would not just drive off and leave them at the curb but here in rural Michigan, the wedding and the reception may be 50 miles apart. A clean pair of Dickies and a new carhart may be considered well dressed for a wedding. I am saying that my clientelle is not that sophiscated. A John Deere with a Hay wagon would be hot here in Northern Michigan.

Exactly..I don't think I ever said we would drive away if they had 12 people. Just offer to make two trips or bring in another car.

David,
I don't know about Michigan, but in rural Montana the local law enforcement do not enforce the Operating Authority certification, but they sure will enforce for vehicle capacity and related traffic laws. I have had officers discreetly count passengers as they enter or emerge. We also have folks who want to skirt the capacity limits and we also send out an agreement ahead of time listing the capacity. A copy of that agreement goes with our chauffeur just in case there is any question about exactly who agreed to what. If they have more passengers than occupancy we offer them the choice of making a second trip or arranging alternate transportation for the extras. We would not drive off with their deposit after cancelling their engagement for non-compliance unless they insisted that we break the law by overloading our vehicle. That has not happened. If they will "stuff" the car they will tear it up, too.

Tony: I know what you are saying and it would be nice to get full payment up front but some times that is just not possible. I do not enjoy the advantage of being able to pick and choose which runs I want and do not want so I have to make a few consessions here and there just to get the business. I know it would be nice to just drive away with a pocket full of cash becase some one did not live up to their side of the deal but in the small communities I service where every one is related, you just cannot do that if you expect to stay in business. I do send out contracts and I do get them back signed with the understanding of how many people are expected but they still try to stuff you any way. My question is would you just drive away with their money if there were 10 people instead of 8? In Northern Michigan, that would be business suicide.

Actually Dave, it shouldn't be that hard. They have email and faxes in the country don't they?

For us:

A) full payment is due before the vehicle moves out of our garage

B) customer has signed an agreement that was faxed or emailed to them when they booked agreeing to the capacity of the vehicle and the number of people in their party.

Protect yourself. It is easy these days. Even if you don't have email or fax there is always the mail.

I guess the problem I have with some of these country Folks is that you tell them on the phone that the Limo is an 8 passenger plus the Driver and that is fine because the price is right (they would have to pay about $300.00 more for two hours for a 14 Pax from my competitor) then when you get there, they have 12 people in the wedding party and Bridzilla wants them all to ride in the Limo. At this point, all you have is a deposit and had driven 50 miles to get there. What do you do? Leave them standing at the curb and drive away with your deposit or roll the dice and stuff them all in? You would think they would want to have an enjoyable experiance with the Limo but most choose to stuff the Limo. I guess it is just the Northern Michigan culture.

Tony
I really appreciate your attitude and your diligence. Truth is truth. Overstateing is a danger to the public and the passengers and Company as well. If one simply takes the time to let the client know the upside and spell out the differences they will usually opt for the Better of the two in my Experience. There are always going to be those Operators who are going to cram people in their Stretchs for a Dollar.I personaly would rather loose the Business than take a chance.

Thanks to all who have made an commitment to passenger safty verse the almighty Dollar...

David well yes a bus will do the job, i have a limo bus but not everyone wants a bus for their special occassion. It must be bad memories on the school bus or lets be honest they are not sleek or pretty.

There is a vehicle out there that is safe for large groups. It is called a Bus. A Limo to me is a luxury vehice designed to haul a small group of people (six max plus a chauffeur) Anything more than that should ride a Bus.

Just my thoughts however.

Cramming people in a limo is not a way to make a sale.I hope that limo builders will think outside the box and realize that parties are getting larger for limo rentals and give us different vehicles capable of safely carrying more passengers.Making overstretched vehicles is not the answer either, design it that way from the start for more capacity.

What the coachbuilders state (both QVM and non QVM) has nothing to do with the design limits placed on any vehicle by a manufacturer, a manufacturer states the max load for a particular design for many reasons and the only way around that is to build a "Special" with all the relevant upgrades and have it crash tested to pass FMVSS or any other countries specifications, if you exceed the weight limits imposed by a manufacturer without doing the above, you leave yourself wide open to smart lawyers taking you for a lot of money in the event of an accident case ( whether you were in the right or wrong !) The risk of overloading is placed firmly on the owner/operator of the vehicle and we all know what clients look at if things go wrong ! Anything they think can substancially increase their case.

It is also an insurance issue in Michigan. 9 passengers, 1 Million liability. 10 to 15 Passengers including Driver 2 Million liability. If you have base 1 million ( which most do) and you have 12 little Kids in the back, you have a problem. I have a lot of request for 10 passengers at a wedding. I tell the client that the Limo is rated for 8 passengers in the back and 10 would be squeezing it.

The problem is I live in Northern Michigan where money is a rare commodity so people like to get by as CHEAP as they can. My older 8 Pax goes for $250.00 for two hours, (local wedding) my nearest Compedetor who has a 14 Pax SUV goes for $750.00 for two hours. Most choose a little discomfort to save $500.00. I can give them a 29 Passenger ABC Bus for $750.00 if they have a lot of people, this seems to be gaining in popularity.

Proff: I would love to see some photos of 120" QVM door stickers that say they are rated for 10 passengers (ie paying customers in the rear as implied by so many limo companies). Most rating stickers say 8 rear + 1 Front = 9 Max.
The exception that comes to mind is LCW's new composite 120" which is 8 rear + 2 front.

Bottom line a 120" is designed for 8 adults in the rear, not 10 as most limo companies claim. I have spent an evening or two out in a 120" with 8 adults in the rear and I certainly would not want to be in one with 10 people, much less subject my customers to that.

Cliff: When people call us saying they have 10 passengers we try to take the time to explain to them about the differences in vehicles, how most limo companies mislead, and then suggest the proper vehicle. If the customer is more interested in saving a few dollars versus having a comfortable evening with a honest, quality service who cares about their comfort and needs then they probably are not my target customer. They will find out soon enough about their mistake and hopefully call us next time.

I have heard them ask if their friends can sit on the floor ...the answer is always NO.

The only exception I can see to this if is we are talking kiddos versus adults as the two primary issues of concern are gross weight and passenger comfort (ie not being a sardine for the night).

Don't forget you are the expert and it is your job to educate the customer and suggest the proper product to meet their needs.

GVWR is 7100# my 97s weigh 5980# and 6050# (must had been more Mud on one) do the math. 1050# cargo capacity. I weigh 230, thats 820 left. Where I live, thats 4 Farm Girls.

My QVM 120 states 8 rear, 2 front. So, technically speaking, 9 passengers plus driver.

Which manufacturers state 7 in the rear of a 120" ??????

There are a few QVM builders who state 8 in a 120" due to weight limits but most i have ever seen have always been 10 in a 120 ,8 in a 100",6 in an 80"

140" =12
160"=14
180"=16
etc etc etc

Think this depends on the vehicle and manufacturer but most t/c,s 120" have always been 10 pax.