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Limo-Forum Limo Forum - Limousine Industry Discussion, News, Business GENERAL LIMOUSINE TOPICS General Limousine Industry Topics Wages for employee drivers, not IC.|
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Participant Registered: February 20, 2006
Posts: 16
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Posted
Hello everyone,
Thanks again for all your help in my previous post. As I metioned, we are buying an established limousine company, but will be switching the drivers from IC to employees. For those of you who pay employee wages for drivers, what or how do you figure their wages. Because we own a gas station, we will be paying for gasoline and tolls. Thanks for any input you can give. |
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SINCE 1976 Location: Metairie, Louisiana 70055
Registered: August 31, 2000
Posts: 3628
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Posted
If you have the work and treat them well,they will follow.
Dean Schuler |
GRAND MASTER LUFF / Part Time Bartender Location: Bakersfield, CA 93307
Registered: April 28, 2001
Posts: 1584
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Posted
Yes, Nicole - I should have used a better choice of words. It would be okay to be a whistle blower if you think you would improve the lives of others.
While I did get in trouble for running I/C's who were determined by the IRS to be employees, outside of the money it cost, it was a good move. Employees are covered by workers comp so if anything happens on the job they are covered. As employees, I have complete direction and control and we don't ask employees if they want to take a job - we ASSIGN them the job. We control exactly how we want the job done through an employee policy and procedures manual. We are able to give merit increases on the hourly wage which of course is the greatest incentive of all. In a true I/C relationship, the I/C owns or lease their own car and are free to work for any limousine company with THEIR car and that makes them independent. They buy their own fuel, pay their own maintenance and pay for dispatch services. There is absolutely nothing that endears them to you or makes them try to improve your business or be loyal to you in any way. |
Limo God Location: Spring Hill Florida
Registered: August 17, 2004
Posts: 2696
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Posted
Me thinks your warning will fall on deaf ears as part of the NLA & TLP leadership is S Florida. My understanding is that operators in S. FL have their own problems with an ambulance chasing lawyer beating bushes to bring OT lawuits against operators not in compliance with federal regs. 2 solutions to their problems would be to either lease the vehicles ala taxicab style or obtain a blanket interstate commerce exemption. I think it would be tough sell to a federal judge that placing an employee in a nonleased sedan at a AP or Hotel curb waaiting for walk-ups makes the driver an IC or the operation is within the stream of interstate commerce. "Suing Tampa Limo Regulator In Federal Court For The Right To Use Fuel Efficient Vehicles, Interstate Commerce Clause & Adherence To Federal & State Peemptions " Visit www.thefita.com For Updates On Florida Limousine Corruption |
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Limo Protege Location: Hanover, PA
Registered: May 25, 2007
Posts: 143
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Posted
I don't think he meant that literally, I think Limo Scene meant for you to be a "whistle-blower", "rat" in that meaning. Maybe whistle blower would have been better.
Nicole Paris An Occasion To Remember, Inc. |
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Participant Location: miami,florida
Registered: February 10, 2008
Posts: 5
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Posted
Why are you calling me a rat? you are absolutely wrong and you misunderstood the whole commente, I do not want to rat on anybody only to make a point that the drivers are our driving force because without them there would not be customers they can either make you or brake you therefore we have to treat them with respect.
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GRAND MASTER LUFF / Part Time Bartender Location: Bakersfield, CA 93307
Registered: April 28, 2001
Posts: 1584
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Posted
Transporter - why spout here about it. This is merely a place of opinions. If you are passionate about doing something, start contacting government officials. Write letters to everyone you can think of.
Gunny would probably be a good source for government official addresses as he operates and lives in Florida. Cause the change to take place by being the rat. You see, one day someone "ratted" me for the same thing. But seriously, I was mislead and believed everything I was doing with I/C's was the norm in the industry. The fine folks at the IRS were kind enough to help me see how wrong I was. They helped lighten our wallet of over $30,000 to prove how wrong we were. Someone just has to point the way to the IRS and they will take care of the rest. Knowing from first hand experience........... |
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Participant Location: miami,florida
Registered: February 10, 2008
Posts: 5
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Posted
To NLA! Be aware limo companies in south florida which are members of your org. are treating drivers as employees but declare them as IC. that is unfair, these drivers have no ss,medicare health ins. and no rights the employers charge them for gas,any damages to the vehicles (usualy cars are taken to the company aproved body shop) where the price is inflated and many other atrocities I hope that the gov. will find out about this one day becouse enough is enough someone shall do something about this slavery and disrespect towards drivers and chauffeurs.
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Participant Location: miami,florida
Registered: February 10, 2008
Posts: 5
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Posted
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SINCE 1976 Location: Metairie, Louisiana 70055
Registered: August 31, 2000
Posts: 3628
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Posted
If you treat your Chauffeurs as customers it just works out a whole lot better...
Dean Schuler |
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GRAND MASTER LUFF / Part Time Bartender Location: Bakersfield, CA 93307
Registered: April 28, 2001
Posts: 1584
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Posted
You have mentioned tolls and gas twice. I just want to point out that this is REQUIRED of you. If you have employees, you cannot require them to incur ANY expense in the performance of the job. For more information, see IWC Wage Order #9 governing the renumeration and condtions of employees in the Transportation Industry:
http://www.dir.ca.gov/iwc/IWCArticle9.html Addtionally, while I know Black Tie did not want to start controversy, Chauffeurs involved in an accident cannot be charged per Section 8 of the Order which specifically says unless the employer can prove "Gross Negligence" as a result of the damage/accident, you cannot hold an EMPLOYEE responsible in any manner. Section 9B provides info about the employer's responsibility to provide the employee with equipment and tools to get the expected job done. Now, to answer your question about the "between runs time", I do not pay for this time if the employee is totally releived of all duties during that time. Legally you must pay your employee an additional hour for returning to work a second time in a single day. One of the reasons I pay the extra 1.5 hours a day is to use this as a defense if ever called on it. Another way around this, and you are in a perfect position as a start-up is to have your employees sign an agreement that they know the position involves multiple jobs in a day, with unpaid downtime and they acknowledge and accept that this is normal in this industry and they will not be paid in betweens runs even though they may be allowed to keep the company vehicle in their possession. If collectively, all employees have agreed to this policy/system then you have a collective agreement to waive Order #9. For the most part, these issues never come up if you hire experienced chauffeurs who have made this their career. They understand what the job entails and for the most part, people across America pay about the same amount using one formula or another to arrive at it. My biggest advice would be, do NOT hire rookies. Let some other company work with the trainees. Require, as a company a commercial driver's license, even if your state does not require it. Commercial drivers, in theory, have professional driver's training and have obviously made driving in life, their career choice. Good luck! |
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Participant Registered: February 20, 2006
Posts: 16
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Posted
Thank you everyone for your input.
Do you still suggest paying your drivers on an hourly basis if they have some down time between pick ups & drop offs? As I work with out a formula, we are looking at paying our drivers roughly 30% of the fare. We would pay tolls and gas. This way we aren't paying for the down time between pick ups/drop offs. Our business is strictly airport runs. Thank you for your input. |
Limo God Location: Lupton mich USA
Registered: May 30, 2002
Posts: 2220
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Posted
Jim Luff does it the right way. Don't play games with your people. Just treat them right, pay a good wage for ALL hours worked and you will win in the end.
David E. Merrill |
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GRAND MASTER LUFF / Part Time Bartender Location: Bakersfield, CA 93307
Registered: April 28, 2001
Posts: 1584
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Posted
Doingmybest,
I pay each chauffeur an hourly rate. The rates vary from $8 per hour to $15 per hour. They get paid for every moment they work. They clock in when they begin preparing their car. They cannot clock in more than 45 minutes before run time start and must be clocked out no more than 45 minutes after arriving back at the garage unless they complete an Incident Report outlining why they had to stay on longer, such as excessively dirty car in which case the passenger is billed for addtional clean up time per our signed contract with the customer. We add a 15% gratuity on to each total and pass that on to the chauffeur. There is nothing magical about paying people. If they work for you, at your request, you pay them for their time. I assure you there is no other reason that they came asking for a job than to be paid for their services. A good wage, good treatment and a good atmosphere keeps chauffeurs with you for 10+ years. We have been in business for 16 years and 70% of our employees have been with us for more than 8 years. |
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Newcomer Registered: January 12, 2006
Posts: 2
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Posted
Good day,
Our company uses a system that gives the driver three choices when choosing a pay rate. We are held liable for damage we are responsible for. The system is basically like this... If we want the lowest "deductible" we get the lowest pay, the greater the risk the driver assumes, the higher the pay they receive. A driver who makes $6 per hour has a $500 "deductible". A driver who makes $7 per hour has a $750 "deductible". A driver who makes $8 per hour has a $1000 "deductible". When performing a run in a vehicle requiring a passenger endorsement on the CDL, the rate is $2 per hour higher, but the deductible is $2000. Please note, I am not sharing this information to start a controversy about drivers having to pay for their accidents, but rather to give the original poster some real feedback. |
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Limo God Location: Lupton mich USA
Registered: May 30, 2002
Posts: 2220
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Posted
Nick: You and I both know that almost all of the major Limo companies in the Detroit area prohibit their "employees" from working for other companies.
I guess one way to make this work is to have a Kelly services type of company to provide Chauffeurs to Limo companies on a temporary basis. The only problem we have here is the Chauffeur is the Employee of the temporary agency. I did this type of work when I was at G.M. Proving Ground. I was an Employee of CDI Corp. assigned to work at G.M.. If the job dried up at G.M., I could then go to work at Ford or V.W. or any other company that CDI had a contract with. The problem is, I made $20.00 an hour plus bennies but CDI was paid about $35.00 per hour for my services. I can just picture some of the Major Detroit Limo Companies paying a Temp agency $20.00 to $25.00 per "Clock" hour for a Chauffeur just to be able to beat the IC rule when they can get away with paying them minimum wage per contract hour. David E. Merrill |
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Limo Master Location: Novi,Michigan,USA
Registered: February 24, 2000
Posts: 381
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Posted
The factor that a chauffur MAY work for another company was not the only reason why the Supreme Court ruled the way they did.
Ex. Chauffeur #1 Can you work Today? No Chauffeur #2 Can you work today? No Chauffeur # 3 Can you work today? Yes Car is filled. Will Chauffeur #1 and #2 get fired because they were unable to work? No. They are requested to work on a Job by Job basis. Also limo companies (especially the large ones)are naive if they think all their chauffeurs only work for their company. In Michigan there are some private labor lawyers working on this issue after over 10,000 dollars in legal fees to put it in writing a true IC agreement for the limousine industry. Apparently there is a completely legal way to operate as an IC. Once all the findings are done there is a consideration to offer the legal docs to the GLLA for a fee to share in the legal cost to offer it to members as a member benefit. |
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Limo God Location: Lupton mich USA
Registered: May 30, 2002
Posts: 2220
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Posted
Then I guess from what the Judges are saying is that if your employer tells you are free to work for someone else you are an Independent Contractor.
I wonder just how many refusals it would take before the Limo company just forgets to call you anymore? I wonder what would happen if you used the car from one Limo Company to do a run for another company like a TRUE Independent contractor would be allowed to do. I agree with Michael, why bother to be legal. Just set up as several on paper Corporations with the only asset of each Corporation is the one Limo and operate that way. If they Bust one company, so what, you still have several others in operation. This is the way it is done in some Taxi Operations. David E. Merrill |
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Limo God Location: Spring Hill Florida
Registered: August 17, 2004
Posts: 2696
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Posted
Problem with this Mike is that are no stats to indicate such. Part of my battle, the agency says they regulate to protect public safety the legal team says show stats that indicates unregulated areas suffer more accidents & problems than regulated ones. Can not be proven & part of the problem with the push for State Regulation also. If maims & deaths were occuring the Politicos would make the move to regulate. With no such events blazing in headlines there is no perceived need to get involved & fix a problem that does not exist. "Suing Tampa Limo Regulator In Federal Court For The Right To Use Fuel Efficient Vehicles, Interstate Commerce Clause & Adherence To Federal & State Peemptions " Visit www.thefita.com For Updates On Florida Limousine Corruption |
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Limo God Location: Spring Hill Florida
Registered: August 17, 2004
Posts: 2696
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Posted
Seems as though someone fed the Judge a load of s--t & he bought it with regards to drivers hiring their butts out to multitudes of Operators. Who would consider hiring someone that also drives for the competition?
With that being said, I wonder how this ruling will bounce off the IRS's definition of a IC? "Suing Tampa Limo Regulator In Federal Court For The Right To Use Fuel Efficient Vehicles, Interstate Commerce Clause & Adherence To Federal & State Peemptions " Visit www.thefita.com For Updates On Florida Limousine Corruption |
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Limo-Forum Limo Forum - Limousine Industry Discussion, News, Business GENERAL LIMOUSINE TOPICS General Limousine Industry Topics Wages for employee drivers, not IC.