The Limos.com Forum Has Moved!!!

With all the action that has happened in Tampa over the past 2 days regarding the Hillsborough County Public Transportation Commission(HCPTC), it is only fitting to start a new thread on this regulatory agency.

HCPTC Background - The HCPTC is the only regulatory agency of its type in the State of Florida whereas its powers are derived from a special act of the Florida Legislature. Hence, regulatory is set forth in State Law & not a local ordinance. Transportation services regardless of location & demographics must abide by the rules & directives of the HCPTC or face criminal charges. With Florida being a major draw for retiree's, the directives of the HCPTC includes airport transportation services located 50 - 100 miles from Tampa being forced to limit the offerings of luxury transportation to these retiree's at either a cost well below market value or at a pricing that will doom the business to failure. This policy of limitation to "luxury vehicles" has been confirmed to be strictly an attempt to protect a specific industry, the Tampa taxicabs. The only other alternative is for the transportation service to run 10 - 15 passenger vans/buses regardless of the passenger load. Prohibited from use are moderate priced sedans, minivans & hybrids that would allow the motor carrier to offer moderate priced transfers to the interstate traveler & allow the motor carrier to earn a decent profit.

Recent Events - Ndidi Osuji is a van operator in Tampa who leased his permit from a Certificate holder as many 1 vehicle operators do. Some months back he was parked by the Tampa cruise ship terminal & was approached by a family for transportation to the airport(?). This was observed by a HCPTC Inspector who intervened & told the folks that they must use a taxicab over the objections of the gent who wanted to use the van. Mr Osuji was given a citation for "solicitation" & he in turn contacted Attorney Luke Lirot to represent him in fighting the citation. Luke fought & won the case & as a result, the Certificate holder pulled the permit from Mr Osuji.

Mr Osuji, now unable to earn a living found another Certificate holder willing to lease a permit to Mr Osuji. This offer was pulled when the Certificate holder was contacted by the Executive Director of the HCPTC (Greg Cox) who, as reported & confirmed through interviews, was intimidated by Cox to pull the offer of leasing the permit.

Mr Osuji contacted myself through the FITA website & we discussed on numerous occasions, options with emphasis on contacting the media & moving on into the civil courts. Mr. Osuji contacted an invesigative reporter, Mike Deeson, who has been working with several members of FITA waiting for the right story to break & he jumped on Mr Osuji's story of civil rights violation of being "blackballed":
Blackballed

During the 8 August HCPTC meeting the VP of FITA, Haze Andreadakis, appeared before the board confirming this tactic was not an isolated case & demanding that the board takes action:

HCPTC Meeting

Based on the accusations of blackballing, concern of financials, a hostile work environment & other issues, Cox was suspended for 30 days & an investigation ordered.

Up Next - Tampa Denies Waiver For Prius (Hybrid)

This message has been edited. Last edited by: gunny,

quote:

Originally posted by gunny:

quote:

Originally posted by TBLIMO:
________________________________________________
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Gunny, the rumor is that you made Rocky Shirey pack and leave town?

Moshe Leib
www.tblimo.com

I heard that he has departed Julie's. 1st & only time I heard from him or someone reporting to be him was shortly after Herring died & I received a call demanding that I remove her death announcement from the FITA site.

Of course I refused.

Whether or not the reporting & subsequent tie in on search engines of Julie's Limousine attempting to block new market entrants (competiton) led to his departure is an unknown.

Now can we work on ???? Getting the Chairmen removed from the PTC Board.

quote:

Originally posted by TBLIMO:
________________________________________________
________________________________________________

Gunny, the rumor is that you made Rocky Shirey pack and leave town?

Moshe Leib
www.tblimo.com

I heard that he has departed Julie's. 1st & only time I heard from him or someone reporting to be him was shortly after Herring died & I received a call demanding that I remove her death announcement from the FITA site.

Of course I refused.

Whether or not the reporting & subsequent tie in on search engines of Julie's Limousine attempting to block new market entrants (competiton) led to his departure is an unknown.

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Originally posted by gunny:
Calling Out Rocky Shirey, spokesperson for NLA Director Julie Herring at the PTC meeting:

"My name is Rocky Shirey, & I'm here this morning in place of Julie Herring"

"She's on the Executive Board of the NLA, as well as being the chairperson for the Limousine Success Group, the 20th largest indpendent operators in the country"

"You're being asked today to do something that's extraordinary that will have a long pat -- a longstanding impact to the transportation industry in this county" (remember, this taxihead is based in another county)

"The commission is being asked today to essentially allow the creation of what would be -- the equivalant of two of the largest largest limousine companies that are in existence today"

"As Dave mentioned, there are 639 taxis that are certified with 829 limousine vehicles. As you can see from the numbers on the graph on the right, limousines are 48% of the market, taxis are 37%. This is not what was intended when the legislature asked this body to regulate this industry"

Amateurs, too easy -
This taxihead rep of Herring brings forth the numbers yet fails to bring forth the fact that the limousines are based in not less than 10 counties compared to the taxicabs based just in Hillsborough. That these limo ops are what folks in counties 50 - 100 miles outside of Tampa rely on for transport to & from the Interstate Hubs. Now that Davis & Julie are sucking wind & can't roll their stretches or run their new fancy cars with corporates at corporate prices, they want to skewer the figures & act like they are on the Taxicab side to restrict market entry. No wonder their association carries less than 18% of the local limo industry & it would be lower if they didn't offer up permits for the cruise port.

The State didn't one day wake up & say, "hey, lets form the only special district in the state to regulate limos & taxi's down in Tampa". The taxicabs paid the right local politicians off & these local politicians drafted a protection local law to create this agency.

Obviously another wannabe in the spotlight. He should visit the FITA site and learn something.

I feel another press release coming, "NLA & TLPA Directors seek to restrict limousine market entry in Tampa"
________________________________________________

Gunny, the rumor is that you made Rocky Shirey pack and leave town?

Moshe Leib
www.tblimo.com

The HCPTC drama just keeps getting deeper.

"Fired aide sues county" reads the headline in todays St Pete Times. A former aide for Commissioner White (who chairs the HCPTC) has filed a civil complaint against Hillsborough County alleging she was fired because White wanted to get into her panties & she rebuked his advances.

Sometimes shit gets so comical I can only shake my head & wish I was back in uniform amongst men of integrity. Awhile back I posted that the Chair of the HCPTC (the one nailed for buying suits with campaign funds) had brought his political consultant Victor DiMaio aboard as a lobbyist.

I just received another batch of e-mails obtained through a public records request. Here is an excerpt from an individual named Terry Blankenship sent to Janet Zink of the St Pete Times that was forwarded to the Interim Executive Director who sent it off to the Assistant County Attorney Orlando Perez:

"I know Victor from FSU where he ran a red light and killed innocent kids, then disappeared into a depressed stupor, got dumped by Bob Grahams camp and got away with murder"

"The PTC is headed for a rude awakening of ABUSE OF POWER from DiMaio, especially during a SUPER BOWL IN 2009"

Word is that another lawsuit against the HCPTC hit Federal Court yesterday. That's 3 in federal with 3 more in the pipeline that I know of. Operators should get ready for a permit rate increase to pay for the legal fees.

quote:

Originally posted by Ferd the Limo Guy:
Hey Gunny,

How did that lawsuit you filed against the PTC a while back ever turn out?

Federal suit is still in play. As with other legal action including the Super Bowl, it has been decided to limit the info until conclusion.

I will say this, & will catch shit for it. My friend Moshe who is as adamant as me with fighting for what is right, is doing such while fighting a very serious illness & if the Industry showed 1/4 the guts as Moshe, Florida would be a different place to do business in.

Hey Gunny,

How did that lawsuit you filed against the PTC a while back ever turn out?

Nice to see somone from Florida looking into the issues:

The challenge issued is predicated upon the powers of the HCPTC as a "special district" and the PTC's authority to abscond itself from the statutory mandate it has been given.

The PTC as well as all Hillsborough law enforcement entities are directed by the act to enforce the provisions mandated in the law which includes the statutory mandate that all persons desiring to engage in the business of operating a public vehicle upon the public highways of Hillsborough County must obtain from the commission a "certificate".

Within the act are the definitions of "public vehicle" as well as the exemptions. If the Legislature desired to exempt from the PTC's regulatory requirements, vehicles just dropping folks off, passing through or providing charters within the county as long as the charter started outside of the county, it is (as with the exemptions now provided) within the public vehicle definition section of the act that these exemptions would be noted.

On public record, the enactment of Rule 1.18 was presented to the Commissioners as giving "statutory definition" to what operating means within the law & this is not a power bestowed upon the commission by the Florida Legislature as only the Legislature has the authority to amend statute and the Governor must sign off on the amendments.

As enforcers of the law and a legislatively created administrative unit of government, the PTC has no statutory authority to decide what it will enforce and what it will not. Issues of infringment of interstate carriage is correct and though it can be argued as the Interstates are not "Highways of Hillsborough County" and the PTC has no jurisdiction over the intercounty or interstate movements, the proper remedy for addressing any constitutional concerns would be through the act itself and not by rule making which is limited to implementing specific provisions of law.

Due to its arbritrary implementation of rule 1.18 & policy set forth of allowing unlicensed limos to run amok in the county as long as the ride started outside of the county, the PTC is batting zero in criminal convictions and the PTC's enforcement authority is becoming more of a joke than anything else as Defense Attorney's will tear through that it's not a safety issue or violation of law in allowing unlicensed limos to bring into Tampa folks to party all night without due concern of the fitness of the driver or vehicle yet to enter Tampa & load passengers for direct intercounty movements is a violation of law & a safety concern.

If a motor carrier's movement was infringed upon by enforcement of the act and there was a case for challenge, that challenge would not be levied against the PTC as enforcers of the law but against the State of Florida as the creator of the law.

As far as following the advice, well that advice can suddenly change with a stroke of the pen from a circuit court. What's legal today may be unlawful tommorrow.

Florida case law at first appears to be relatively clear on this issue:

A rule is an invalid exercise of delegated legislative authority when it enlarges, modifies, or contravenes the specific provision of law implemented. § 120.52(8)(c), Fla. Stat. (2005). "Under section 120.52(8)(c), the test is whether a (proposed) rule gives effect to a `specific law to be implemented,' and whether the (proposed) rule implements or interprets `specific powers and duties.'"

However, playing Devil's advocate, the law is never so easily interpreted!

The noted provision of Chapter 2001-299 Section 7(1) does provide, "It is unlawful for any person to engage in the business of operating a public vehicle on the public highways of the county unless that person has complied with the provisions of this act and any rules adopted in accordance with this act." Unfortunately, I would suggest that the rulemaking power of the HCPTC, and Rule 1.18 itself does not necessarily contravene Chapter 2001-299.

Chapter 2001-299 Section 2(1) provides in relevant part, "Its purpose is to regulate the operation of public vehicles upon the public highways of Hillsborough County and its municipalities. The commission has exclusive jurisdiction in the exercise of the authority provided by this act.

The HCPTA is an executive agency and any rule contravening the law would necessarily usurp the legislative authority, thereby violating separation of powers constitutional concerns. However, enforcement, or lack thereof, does NOT violate constitutional protections. Consider this analogy: Florida Statutes Chapter 316 & 318 provide for the traffic laws on Florida's roadways. Jurisdiction is assigned by statute to the Dept of Transportation and the individual municipalities. However, when FHP or your local friendly police officer pulls you over he/she is AUTHORIZED to give you citation, but thankfully he/she is not REQUIRED to give you one. The HCPTA's rule 1.18 is in essence a decision by the authority not to enforce the provisions of the statute when a fare originates outside the jurisdiction of Hillsborough County.

I might also suggest that rule 1.18 may even be NECESSARY to avoid constitutional infringement of the Federal Interstate Commerce Clause. I-4, I-275 and I-75 all run through Hillsborough County and are obviously part of the interstate highway system supported by Federal tax dollars. Restricting the ability of a proprietor from traveling from Valdosta to Naples without obtaining a permit from Hillsborough creates impossible logistical concerns. This would open the door for all 67 Florida Counties to create a new revenue source and make operating any commercial passenger transportation business impossible.

I do intend on transporting my customers from the Orlando area to the Tampa Superbowl in 2009 in reliance on the authority's Rule 1.18 advice that enforcement of Chapter 2001-299 will be waived for out-of-county fare originations.

The hearing for the challenge of HCPTC Rule 1.18 has been continued at the request of the PTC Lawyer who has another scheduled date before a judge.

In the meantime, based on the response to the challenge whereas the PTC provided no concrete evidence or support that the challenged rule does not contravene its statutory mandate to regulate public vehicles operating on the public roadways of Hillsborough County & the PTC's failure to enforce the mandate that every person desiring to engage in the business of operating a public vehicle in the county must obtain licensing, a Motion for Summary Judgment has been submitted by the Petitioner.

Excerpts form the 12 March 2008 HCPTC Public Meeting

Speaker, Lobbyist Victor DiMaio

"The former Director of the PTC, Mr. Cox, is now coordinating transportation for the Super Bowl, and he contacted Representative Glorioso, who's the prime sponsor on our bill, and told him that the NFL wasn't happy with it, and he asked me to ask you for direction"

"Mr Cox knows better, he's not a registered lobbyist. He has no business contacting a member without permission or without being registered"

I have repeatedly stated on various public forums that Cox violated the law in 2001 by allowing hundreds of unlicensed businesses and drivers into Tampa for the Super Bowl. That Cox, who was a member of the Tampa Super Bowl Delegation knew that transportation promises and/or concessions made to the NFL during the bidding for 2009 could not be honored without violating the mandates given under State Law. He can try to sue me at any time for libel if this claim is untrue.

Word from this mornings HCPTC Public Meeting

After the anti-trade tirade that Herring's GM put on last month, Julie's Limousine received threatening (?) phone calls. She'll be lucky if that is all that comes her way & not some lawsuits.

Word was passed that the NFL are not happy campers right now. Could 2009 be the last Super Bowl hosted by Tampa?

Enforcement of the law. What a bitch!

quote:

Originally posted by Dean Schuler:
That is one of the major problems with provincial regulatory authorities.

No problems with this Mickey Mouse organization. We're just going to make them gag on their own law. Sort of, light the fuse, kick back & watch the fireworks show.

That is one of the major problems with provincial regulatory authorities.

quote:

Originally posted by gunny:
The Hillsborough County Public Transportation Commission "Real Deal"

Entering Hillsborough County every single day are drivers operating limousines, small buses and taxicabs who can be terrorists, rapist, child molesters, criminals etc., and the HCPTC doesn't care and in fact under its rules, the HCPTC permits such.

It is a known fact that Hillsborough Prom Kids will hire a non-HCPTC licensed limousine service and meet that limousine somewhere outside of Hillsborough County for, under the HCPTC rules, lawful transport back into the county to attend the prom event in Tampa. Is a rapist or drunk driving these teenagers? Don't ask the HCPTC, they don't know!

In fact, the only thing the HCPTC gives a shit about is protecting the taxicab turf at the airport & cruise port. Evidenced by they could care less if a non-licensed, unsafe, uninsured limousine driven by someone with a couple of DWI's under the belt transports into the county a handfull of gals to go club hoping & while the gals are in the club getting hammered, the driver is in the limo getting hammered for all they know or care.

But let the sober, noncriminal go to Tampa International to bring back to home county a return transfer, off to jail buddy.

Public Safety My Ass

I'm just geting warmed up for the hearing on 18 March!!!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Dean Schuler,

The Hillsborough County Public Transportation Commission "Real Deal"

Entering Hillsborough County every single day are drivers operating limousines, small buses and taxicabs who can be terrorists, rapist, child molesters, criminals etc., and the HCPTC doesn't care and in fact under its rules, the HCPTC permits such.

It is a known fact that Hillsborough Prom Kids will hire a non-HCPTC licensed limousine service and meet that limousine somewhere outside of Hillsborough County for, under the HCPTC rules, lawful transport back into the county to attend the prom event in Tampa. Is a rapist or drunk driving these teenagers? Don't ask the HCPTC, they don't know!

In fact, the only thing the HCPTC gives a shit about is protecting the taxicab turf at the airport & cruise port. Evidenced by they could care less if a non-licensed, unsafe, uninsured limousine driven by someone with a couple of DWI's under the belt transports into the county a handfull of gals to go club hoping & while the gals are in the club getting hammered, the driver is in the limo getting hammered for all they know or care.

But let the sober, noncriminal go to Tampa International to bring back to home county a return transfer, off to jail buddy.

Public Safety My Ass

I'm just geting warmed up for the hearing on 18 March!!!

Received some PM's from folks who don't exactly understand the challenge of rules that was accepted by the Florida Division Of Administrative Hearings (DOAH).

In a nutshell, a petition of challenge was filed concerning rules enacted by the HCPTC allowing non-licensed limos and taxicabs to transport passengers on the roadways of Hillsborough County/Tampa despite the wording of law mandating that all must be licensed with no provisions for exemptions or exceptions.

A hearing is scheduled for 18 March as the DOAH does not screw around as with civil courts. The Judge is being asked to look at the provisions of law & the rules adopted by the HCPTC to implement the law for a determination if the rule enlarges, modifies or contravenes the law. If the Judge rules that the rule does indeed contravene the law, the rule will be declared invalid & most likely the result will be that any taxicab or limousine for-hire entering Tampa, even if the purpose is just to drop off passengers from another county, will need a HCPTC license & permits.

Those who would be hit the hardest will be the several hundred taxi cabs across the bay in Pinellas County who rely on drops to the Tampa airport for a large part of their revenue. Guess the licensed limos will have to pick up the slack. Hell, the Pinellas cabbies might get so pissed off they will push their elected leaders for some payback law that will keep the Tampa cabs out of Pinellas County. As some 60% of travelers coming through TIA are heading over to Pinellas, that'll be a big hit for the Tampa cabs & who'll have to pick up that slack?

Then of course there are the Tampa businesses & convention people who may not be too keen on limos & small buses being barred from entering with their money spending passengers.

But hey, the law is the law & the law must be enforced as written.

Chapter 2001-299 Laws of Florida
S5 ( 1 ) (b ) The commission shall adopt rules in conformance with chapter 120, Florida Statutes, the Administrative Procedures Act.

S7 ( 1 ) It is unlawful for any person to engage in the business of operating a public vehicle on the public highways of the county unless that person has complied with the provisions of this act.

S7 ( 2 ) Any person desiring to engage in the business of operating any public vehicle in the county must first acquire a certificate from the commission and must first make written application to the commission on a form provided by the commission for that purpose. Upon receipt of such application the commission SHALL investigate the facts stated in the application and fix a date, time, and place for a public hearing.

S11 ( 1 ) In addition to any other civil fines and penalties contained elsewhere in this act, any person who violates or fails to comply with or who procures, aids, or abets in the violation o this act is guilty of a criminal offense and misdemeanor.

S11 ( 2 ) Any person who operates a public vehicle upon the public highways without a certificate, permit, or public vehicle driver's license as provided by this act may be enjoined by the courts of this state from any such violation.

HCPTC Rule 1.18
Operate or Operating means causing a public vehicle to function on the roads, streets, or highways of Hillsborough County following or during the act of picking up a passenger at a location within Hillsborough Count, for the purpose of transporting the passenger to any location inside the State of Florida. Operate or Operating does not include the following:
a. A public vehicle transporting a passenger into Hillsborough County that was originally picked up outside of Hillsborough County, wherein the public vehicle remains with the original passenger by being continually contracted or hired and available on-demand to the original passenger, and not used or available to transport other passenegrs while waiting for the continuation of the service. During the course of the service, the public vehicle may pick up additional non-paying passengers inside of Hillsborough County with the consent of the original passenger, provided the public vehicle remains with the original passenegr for the duration of the contracted service.
b. The discharge within Hillsborough County of any passenger picked up outside of Hillsborough County.

The Law clearly states that if operating a public vehicle on the roadways of the county the operator must be licensed.

Chapter 120 ( 8 ) Invalid Exercise Of Delegated Legislative Authority - means action which goes beyond the powers, functions, and duties delegated by the Legislature. A proposed or existing rule is an invalid exercise of delegated legislative authority if any one of the following apllies:
( c ) The rule enlarges, modifies, or contravenes the specific provisions of law implemented

A challenge of agency rules has been submitted and accepted by the Florida Division Of Administrative Hearings. On 18 March the Petitioner & the HCPTC will attend a hearing where an Administrative Judge will look at Rule 1.18 & the law and make a ruling if the rule contravenes the licensing mandates given under law.