The Limos.com Forum Has Moved!!!

So, I was thinking of using a beater limo('98 plus) to taxi cab the bars around closing time.. wundering if this is legal. I will of course have the client(s) sign a contract and verify their credit card on the spot before servicing them. My question is what would it take for this to be legit? Im 100% legel for what im already doing, just unsure about picking random drunks up. I know it sounds like terrible idea but I always get drunks chasing me with hundred dollar bills when rolling through the bar areas. Any input is appreciated.

P.S. anyone want to buy my opera lights(3 fuse bulb style) im upgradeing.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve W.:

quote:

Out of curiosity...why do you think I'll have so many empty seats?

Chris while I think it's a great idea to get some potential drunks off the road I am with David's thinking that more seats will be empty than full.

Just from my few years in MI I seem to remember Ferndale and Royal Oaks as pretty affluent areas. Is that correct?

One thing people with some disposable income don't do to often is ride public transportation. Now I know your not a city bus, but you may end up being worse than a city bus in that all you will be transfering is drunks. So imagine the downside of people considering your service:
1. Be on there with people you don't know
2. Perhaps be on there with drunks
3. Perhaps be on there with roudy or even fighting passengers
4. Then get dropped off somewhere where they have to still walk to there car at 2 am and still have someone as a designated driver to get them the rest of the way home.

Unless I am totally off base here, is the market i describe what your going after?

I do see it working under 2 conditions that I am not sure are present in your community:
1. Lots of college age kids to support it (they love the community feeling of shuttle bus)
2. Parking in short supply around all the dining and bar locations.

Appreciate the feedback! However, the main goal and purpose of the shuttles is not a "bar hopping" bus. The goal is to unite the suburbs and the city. Safely and easily bringing people between the cities. Yes, i do know that there will be drunks. However, that is not the target audience.

My biggest concern at this point is if i will be in any violation of city ordinance by driving a fixed route for a fixed fare. The only thing I've seen is on the detroit city website about no jitneys....anyone have insight?

Thanks!

quote:

Out of curiosity...why do you think I'll have so many empty seats?

Chris while I think it's a great idea to get some potential drunks off the road I am with David's thinking that more seats will be empty than full.

Just from my few years in MI I seem to remember Ferndale and Royal Oaks as pretty affluent areas. Is that correct?

One thing people with some disposable income don't do to often is ride public transportation. Now I know your not a city bus, but you may end up being worse than a city bus in that all you will be transfering is drunks. So imagine the downside of people considering your service:
1. Be on there with people you don't know
2. Perhaps be on there with drunks
3. Perhaps be on there with roudy or even fighting passengers
4. Then get dropped off somewhere where they have to still walk to there car at 2 am and still have someone as a designated driver to get them the rest of the way home.

Unless I am totally off base here, is the market i describe what your going after?

I do see it working under 2 conditions that I am not sure are present in your community:
1. Lots of college age kids to support it (they love the community feeling of shuttle bus)
2. Parking in short supply around all the dining and bar locations.

quote:

Originally posted by ExcelLimousine:

quote:

Originally posted by NightMove:
Thanks for the quick response!

So even if I'm just driving a set route...and not taking people home or to a specified location by them, but rather by me. (We plan to have 6 stops on the route and just circle around for the night...charging people as they get on). This wouldnt be able to work? I've spoke with MDOT and the cities I plan to stop in and no one seemed to think this was a problem. Who regualtes this? Who would give me the red light? Thanks again!!

What state are you in?

Michigan.

quote:

Originally posted by David Merrill:
Sounds like you are talking about a fixed route bus service. You would probably need MDOT authority and $5 million liability insurance. I don't think SMART will give you any problem but I think you are going to end up hauling around a lot of empty seats.

Thanks for all the advise! I've already spoke with traffic control in both Ferndale and Royal Oak prior to posting, and they dont have a problem. In fact they seem to like the fact that I will potentially be bringing more business to the area. I've also already spoke with MDOT. So as far as your knowledge and understanding are concerned...I only need MDOT authority and 5mil insurance?

Out of curiosity...why do you think I'll have so many empty seats? Thanks!!

Sounds like you are talking about a fixed route bus service. You would probably need MDOT authority and $5 million liability insurance. I don't think SMART will give you any problem but I think you are going to end up hauling around a lot of empty seats.

quote:

Originally posted by NightMove:
Thanks for the quick response!

So even if I'm just driving a set route...and not taking people home or to a specified location by them, but rather by me. (We plan to have 6 stops on the route and just circle around for the night...charging people as they get on). This wouldnt be able to work? I've spoke with MDOT and the cities I plan to stop in and no one seemed to think this was a problem. Who regualtes this? Who would give me the red light? Thanks again!!

What state are you in?

I think you better have a chat with the City Police officals in the Cities you mentioned. The Ferndale police do not even let the legit Limos operate with out a lot of hassle. Royal Oak is a little more enlightened but Detroit, you must be joking. The Taxi Drivers down there will eat you alive. They are all hurting right now and if that pie gets any thinner, You may not come home one day.

quote:

Originally posted by NightMove:

Sorry about that. We plan to operate in Royal Oak, Ferndale and Detroit MI. We'll be headquartered in Ferndale. Thanks!![/QUOTE]

OK, we do have some folks from MI who can chime in.

Essentially what you are looking to do is start a intercounty nonpublic bus service & especially with the city of Detroit is where you need to start your inquiries with. There may be restrictions if your nonpublic bus operates over a certain percentage of public bus routes.

quote:

Originally posted by gunny:

quote:

Originally posted by NightMove:
Thanks for the quick response!

So even if I'm just driving a set route...and not taking people home or to a specified location by them, but rather by me. (We plan to have 6 stops on the route and just circle around for the night...charging people as they get on). This wouldnt be able to work? I've spoke with MDOT and the cities I plan to stop in and no one seemed to think this was a problem. Who regualtes this? Who would give me the red light? Thanks again!!

One of the problems with Newbs is that they fail to publish what state & city they plan to operate in. Provide this info & then maybe someone who is experienced in that particular jurisdiction can lay out the law of the land.

Sorry about that. We plan to operate in Royal Oak, Ferndale and Detroit MI. We'll be headquartered in Ferndale. Thanks!!

quote:

Originally posted by NightMove:
Thanks for the quick response!

So even if I'm just driving a set route...and not taking people home or to a specified location by them, but rather by me. (We plan to have 6 stops on the route and just circle around for the night...charging people as they get on). This wouldnt be able to work? I've spoke with MDOT and the cities I plan to stop in and no one seemed to think this was a problem. Who regualtes this? Who would give me the red light? Thanks again!!

One of the problems with Newbs is that they fail to publish what state & city they plan to operate in. Provide this info & then maybe someone who is experienced in that particular jurisdiction can lay out the law of the land.

Thanks for the quick response!

So even if I'm just driving a set route...and not taking people home or to a specified location by them, but rather by me. (We plan to have 6 stops on the route and just circle around for the night...charging people as they get on). This wouldnt be able to work? I've spoke with MDOT and the cities I plan to stop in and no one seemed to think this was a problem. Who regualtes this? Who would give me the red light? Thanks again!!

Well night move, it is obvious you are a newbie as you activated a threat from last summer that was long ago closed.

Here is the answer you are looking for. You are looking to side step the traditional differences between a luxury, pre-arranged livery services vs. your everyday, run of the mill taxi. The two industries may be similar but are vastly different by governement control, regulations and requirements. If you want to be a taxi, you must have a meter and a top hat light. If you want to be a limousine, you cannot have a meter or a top hat.

So, here is how we skirt the issue:

Note to Sacramento CHP (who diligently reads posts here) - I do not do this but it is legit!

Newbie, you need to go to the bars that you want to hit up for picking up "fares". May a pre-existing arrangement that you will provide rides home for their patrons for a fee of $XX.

Allow the bar to promote THEIR safe ride program home. Allow the bar to collect the money (and even make money on it) and you will bill them for each ride provided for their clients. You can do this with many bars in town and then go to each bar as your are summoned. Now, you are not working for the "fare" but are working for your client, the bar, who hired you on a pre-arranged basis. This IS a legitimate arrangement.

quote:

Originally posted by gunny:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve W.:
This "pre-arrangement" argument came up on a message board with Taxi drivers in Vegas as I guess this practice is rampant there with the limos.

What exactly is pre-arranged? If someone walks up to you and says "Is you limo for hire?" and you say yes. Is that not prearranged? Pre-arranged seconds before yes but pre-arranged none the less. And if they walk up to you at 1:55am and ask that tell them "OK your pick up will be at 1:56am" one minute prearrangement.

First some simple definitions:
arrange - to make preparations, plan
pre - earlier then, prior to, before, preparatory, in advance

So the question would be, if someone staggering out of a bar and snagging a limo waitng on the street is a planned event?

Might be for the drunk who when sober planned to get drunk & hail a limo for a ride home.

But if that event was not coordinated with the limo company, is the transport of that particular drunk on the limo's part a planned event?

Now when we look at a city like NYC. Only cabs can accept street hails whereas black cars are regulated to radio dispatching.

So the question must rely on not so much a prearrangement but is the ride considered to be a street hail?

If it is a street hail, then it would not fall under a prearranged transport.

Now this opens up another subject under if prearranged limo services are actually using public streets to conduct business?

Many municipalities impose regulatory fees upon limo ops under disquise that limos are using public streets to conduct business. Wrong!

Taxicabs solicit and conduct business on the streets utilizing public right of ways to load and discharge passengers.

Hi, I'm new to the forum, and looking for some info on a business I'm looking to start. What are the regualtions, if you have a "shuttle service" that picks up from set locations, at set times, but "random" people (i.e. they didnt schedule a ride). Can you simply have a for hire shuttle? Is that "arranged" enough to not be a taxi? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!!

-Chris

An extremely lucrative private niche. Low-key is the way here.

quote:

Originally posted by LIMOJESS:
It is easier to use sedans and maybe you should cater to private member clubs.

They will charter you for like six hours and you get paid even if you are sitting there.

The club is also happy that they they have a sedan on standby to take their members home in case.

And when you drop them home, you usually get an extra tip.

It is easier to use sedans and maybe you should cater to private member clubs.

They will charter you for like six hours and you get paid even if you are sitting there.

The club is also happy that they they have a sedan on standby to take their members home in case.

And when you drop them home, you usually get an extra tip.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve W.:
This "pre-arrangement" argument came up on a message board with Taxi drivers in Vegas as I guess this practice is rampant there with the limos.

What exactly is pre-arranged? If someone walks up to you and says "Is you limo for hire?" and you say yes. Is that not prearranged? Pre-arranged seconds before yes but pre-arranged none the less. And if they walk up to you at 1:55am and ask that tell them "OK your pick up will be at 1:56am" one minute prearrangement.

First some simple definitions:
arrange - to make preparations, plan
pre - earlier then, prior to, before, preparatory, in advance

So the question would be, if someone staggering out of a bar and snagging a limo waitng on the street is a planned event?

Might be for the drunk who when sober planned to get drunk & hail a limo for a ride home.

But if that event was not coordinated with the limo company, is the transport of that particular drunk on the limo's part a planned event?

Now when we look at a city like NYC. Only cabs can accept street hails whereas black cars are regulated to radio dispatching.

So the question must rely on not so much a prearrangement but is the ride considered to be a street hail?

If it is a street hail, then it would not fall under a prearranged transport.

Now this opens up another subject under if prearranged limo services are actually using public streets to conduct business?

Many municipalities impose regulatory fees upon limo ops under disquise that limos are using public streets to conduct business. Wrong!

Taxicabs solicit and conduct business on the streets utilizing public right of ways to load and discharge passengers.

This "pre-arrangement" argument came up on a message board with Taxi drivers in Vegas as I guess this practice is rampant there with the limos.

What exactly is pre-arranged? If someone walks up to you and says "Is you limo for hire?" and you say yes. Is that not prearranged? Pre-arranged seconds before yes but pre-arranged none the less. And if they walk up to you at 1:55am and ask that tell them "OK your pick up will be at 1:56am" one minute prearrangement.

In CA, limo operators are only allowed to do work on a pre-arranged basis and specifically prohibited from engaging in any type of taxi service.

However, under Dean's advice, you could market to the bars, have them pay you and now you have a pre-arranged basis.

Good point Blue Diamond about the Puke. There is a joke that circulated around the Taxi industry about the Guy who got into the back seat and asked the Driver if he had room for a Pizza and a case of Beer in the front seat (before plexiglass shields) the Driver said "sure do" and the Guy Puked in his front seat.

You talked about doing a quick run. I was in Canada one time waiting for a group of Girls. I did a wrong thing but as they say, no good deed goes unpunished. A couple of Girls got left behind in another Party. They asked me if I could just run them a mile down the road to where their Limo Bus was at. I thought about it but said OK and I did it for free. Sure enough, a Camera came up missing.

My own personal opinion is FORGET ABOUT IT.