The Limos.com Forum Has Moved!!!

"The committee's task is to configure how local limousine associations - while still maintaining their individual autonomy - can come under the NLA "umbrella" and, in some way, take on the NLA name"

"We're pursuing this because we believe such affiliate branding will strengthen the entire limousine industry and empower every participating association's effort more fully. It will show the public - legislators and regulatory officials in particular - that the organizations so named "NLA" are united".

The new master plan of the NLA whose commitee make-up includes the buddy of the Fla Taxi Barons Queen & also sits on the TLPA.

Advice, run do not walk from this lunatic association. Yes, lets strengthen the local associations & the few (large operators) who benefit from all & will do any sneaky, underhanded, low down thing to hurt their competition & drive them into the ground. They will ply their powers to benefit their business interests using the numbers of the suckers as leverage to get what they want & not what is good for all.

Boycott the NLA

This message has been edited. Last edited by: gunny,

quote:

Originally posted by Wade Randolph:
Gunny put a call in to George Jacobs of Windy City Limousine. When he yanks the chain of the NLA board they listen. Ask George why the NLA spent a fortune representing him against the IRS in the independent contractor issue and why won't they help you???

Another example of the NLA contradicting itself. The IC issue is a money maker for operators and by expanding the definition of IC would of meant less employees for the operators to be accountable for as FICA, SSI, state taxes etc. would shift to the slob behind the wheel. So jumping to support this was deemed a rightous move v. jumping in to enforce laws prohibiting economic regulation placed on the intrastate carriers of whom most are small operations based in suburban/rural communities.

Gunny put a call in to George Jacobs of Windy City Limousine. When he yanks the chain of the NLA board they listen. Ask George why the NLA spent a fortune representing him against the IRS in the independent contractor issue and why won't they help you???

This may help Luff understand:
LA adopts regulations ala Tampa style & you now find yourself under their regulatory simply to enter, load & leave.

Just on your vehicles:
S#1 & S#2 No Good, too old, unacceptable model types
Blue & White Vans,no good, pick a color, must all be of same color, graphics & with lettering that meets the conditions set by the regulatory body.
The 97 6pax, no good, too old
Cars 8-14, none may be more than 5 models years old at initial permitting.
The Suburban, maybe yes, maybe no.

To obtain licensing from this agency you will have to submit a detailed application package for 2 Certificates of Public Convenience & Neccessity (limousine & van) with application fees. This package will include at your costs the submission of a credit report & your understanding that the regulatory unit may at any time during normal business hours enter your place of business in Bakersfield to review & record your finances.

In addition you will have to pay for a public hearing whereas any operator can intervene & object to you receiving licensure.

The application will then be presented to the Political Commission of this regulatory body whereas they have the authority to grant a yes or no on your application simply because they feel there is enough intrastate carriers entering their jurisdiction & it is taking business away from the local carriers.

If approved, you must then pay for vehicle permits for each vehicle & now start the licensing and permitting process for ports of entry within that specific jurisdiction. This process includes hauling each vehicle in for inspections by each licensing authority.

A year down the road you need to add more vehicles to support business growth? Guess what? Start the process all over again! And of course the COPCN and vehicle permit fees are a yearly renewable thing.

And now it's time to move on to the next jurisdictions requirements.

Meanwhile back on the ranch, there is a state law prohibiting this but no one seems to give a flying rats a$$. Especially the leadership of local associations & individuals who sit on both the NLA & TLPA Boards. In fact, they support this type of regulation.

Jim, I am talking about jurisdictions where they don't give out permits unless you pay them off or you choose to sue them. Time warp places where the legendary bogus " need and necessity' laws are still considered "cutting edge". The fees you speak of we have too. Whenever you add a vehicle in California you just add it on. Here and in Florida one must go to hearings, often with pre-determined results ! In the jurisdictions of which I speak, the sun don't shine unless you fight for your basic rights. The U.S. Constitution is our sole protection in these climes...

OK, enough of the "I love me's"& time to put this thread back on track.

Recap:

#1-The NLA Prez is road tripping trying to convince local associations to put themselves underneath the NLA logo. As such, in my opinion, the NLA will claim all members of the Locals as members whether they have chosen to be part of the NLA or not. Though the leadership of the NLA does not pick battles for the benefit of all but the elitist of the Industry as evidence shows, they still want/need additional numbers to bolster their positions as 10% membership is not that impressive of a number.

#2 - The NLA is attempting to expand the meaning of "through ticketing" to include acceptance of trip tickets, contracts etc. as proof of continued interstate transportation. If successful, intrastate transfers of passengers engaged in interstate travel will be deemed interstate transportation. As such the drivers & all engaged in the accomplishment of these movements will be exempted from Federal Overtime wage laws.

The backlash may be that all motor carriers may fall under Federal Interstate Motor Carrier Regulations whether they physically cross state lines or not.

A positive to such would be it may be more difficult for local regulatory units to impose restrictions & economic regulation to motor carriers of interstate traveling passengers.

I understand what you are saying Dean but we could get into a whole new discussion on what "restraint"is. I feel "restrained" every day in what I do. I mean, why do I have to pay $2 to LAX everytime I do a pickup there on top of the yearly fee to have a license. Why do I have to submit to CHP inspections which take up time which equals money. Why do I have to pay taxes to PUC every quarter when I could use that same money as a down payment on a new car. Why do I have to pay overtime to a guy who works a 15 hour day and that will be his only work from me this week because he is a part timer? The list goes on and on. Again, I simply don't have the time to "man up and go to court" on every single perceived injustice when in fact the rest of my brethern industry people are subjected to the same rules of the sandbox. Dean, you have now seen the entire operation. I have a body shop, a metal finishing shop, an industrial tank valve manufacturing business and the limousine business. We can't forget my part-time, for-fun, bartending job. Each industry has it's own woes. The autobody shop is regulated by the EPA, Air Pollution Control District, Bureau of Automotive repair and of coursed the standard labor board, IRS etc. Again, another industry, another set of rules. I guess I just accept the rules because it is "they way it is". Now, I don't mind contributing funds to GCLA to fight my battles for me. I don't mind sending the NLA money to fight my battles either. I just don't have the time, energy or desire to do it myself.

Grandmaster Luff, The NLA is backing me on the current battle to rewrite the City Transportation Code. My position is an open market with no restraint of trade. Fair is fair-I needed to state that.

Thank goodness for you soldiers out there for braving the government agencies that threaten the industry. I guess it is all about picking and choosing battles. I am way too busy running several businesses to get bogged down in all that but admire and appreciate those that take the time and money to do so. My single most important benefit out of the NLA is the book. It makes it fast and quick to find someone in small cities that may not be served by a big network. For the very small fee we pay to the NLA, it is truly worth it to me as time is money and it is a quick reference tool. I hope if I ever need a "rescue" that they would come and aid me. I have a true belief they would. Good luck with your battle Gunny.

quote:

Originally posted by Limo Scene:

Now, moving on to Michael's comments. I understand where you are coming from and in fact, you are not too far off the mark. The CITY of Los Angeles did exactly what you mentioned. They told me I had to get a City of Los Angeles Business License. I argued. I moaned, I groaned, I stated my case that I don't do business in Los Angeles. All arrangements/transactions are handled in my Bakersfield based office. They refuted that I used "their" airport to earn income. Therefore, I was "transacting business" on Los Angeles City property and must be licensed. They went so far as to send me a yearly worksheet to report how many times each vehicle goes to LAX in a calendar year and continue to tax me on that basis. Was I pissed? Yes! Just as you predicted I would be.

Question for Luff is:
Suppose California had a State Law that basically reads, "No local government entity shall unduly restrict or impose any economic regulation upon passenger VFH solely engaged in intercounty transportation".

Now you enter LA for the sole purpose of loading your passengers for transport to Bakersfield (intercounty) & LA attempts to apply their economic regulation to this. Do you:

( a ) Moan & groan & pay up?

( b ) Man-up & challenge LA in the courts for violating the State Law?

First, Ditto What Dean Printed

Second, I am making a statement about the OT not for the benefit of the business owners but for the drivers who make the industry tick. It is up to them to take it further by blasting their reps not to support it.

Third, why would the local associations jump in? These are the criminals that support monopolizing driven local regulatory entities & restricting intrastate transportation & are the same ones who told the NLA not to get involved . If I keep repeating this will it one day register?

Fourth, If they think I'm amusing now, wait. Massive surprises in store down the road. I only print what I desire to be made public. And what I find amusing and I'm sure Luff does too is that a handful of clowns that has a membership equating to 10% of the Industry making claim that they represent the Industry!!! Maybe they should spend more time trying to recruit more suckers...

As far as my chances of winning. Once again I will repeat the latest development:
Oct 2005 an operator was arrested by the same agency that arrested me while loading passengers in Tampa for transportation to Hernando County (my county). Unlike others who pleaded out v. risking jail time, "she" displayed courage, took a chance with the 3 misdemeanors & brought it to trial in August. The HCPTC had their big guns prosecuting the case. The Judge looked at the very same laws & rules that is the base of my lawsuit & found the operator "Not Guilty" of violating the law. This is the first time that the issues have gone to trial ( I never even got to the arraignment ) & the regulatory agency lost. Not even lost, reports are they were slamming doors when they exited the court. They needed that win as a prelude to doing battle with me. Instead, my attorneys will walk into civil court & in addition to all the laws my suit is based on, hand the presiding Judge the ruling from the criminal court. I would say that I have a better than average chance of prevailing.

Members shall refrain from any act intended to restrain or suppress competition and thereby shall promote the private enterprise system and its guaranty of equal rights for all. Article 26, Code of Ethics

Integrity, either you have it or you don't!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: gunny,

Jim, Restraint of trade is a crime, pure and simple. People who support restraint of trade are criminals. In the limousine business they generally are cowardly and afraid of competition, so they push ridiculous laws. Cities and counties make inadequate regulatory agencies as our businesses are state-wide, etc. Southern states are much different than California. Take some time and read the cases listed on the Insitute for Justice web site. The national organization has taken the wrong position before on these issues. I KNOW : I fought without the NLA-they were on the other side of the fence-and my group defeated the New Orleans Merchants of Malfeasance in Federal Court in 1987.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Dean Schuler,

Greetings all! Sorry I have not been here for awhile as I was in CT attending LCT's East Conference this week. Wouldn't want anyone to think I retreated. I must first clarify my last post in which I meant to say, "I probably don't know much about things OUTSIDE my box" but inadvertently left the word "outside" out which probably is the reason I was rebuked by Gunny for not being able to read. I notice Gunny you are signing with "The NLA - Fighting to end drivers OT". YOU should be too! In any industry I know of, the goal is to reduce or eliminate OT. The fire department doesn't like it when my wife gets it. My adult children do their best to get OT at work for the cush money but really, OT is bad management. It means you don't have enough help and you have to push what help you do have above what is considered a normal day's work. Why are you trying to help your employees get rich? Why not just offer them profit sharing? I too go to extreme lengths to avoid paying overtime as any good management team would.

Now, moving on to Michael's comments. I understand where you are coming from and in fact, you are not too far off the mark. The CITY of Los Angeles did exactly what you mentioned. They told me I had to get a City of Los Angeles Business License. I argued. I moaned, I groaned, I stated my case that I don't do business in Los Angeles. All arrangements/transactions are handled in my Bakersfield based office. They refuted that I used "their" airport to earn income. Therefore, I was "transacting business" on Los Angeles City property and must be licensed. They went so far as to send me a yearly worksheet to report how many times each vehicle goes to LAX in a calendar year and continue to tax me on that basis. Was I pissed? Yes! Just as you predicted I would be. Michael, you said, "I think any business owner would be pissed off if governments restricted their ability to compete and to conduct business". They DO! Everyday. I have answer to the CHP, PUC, DMV, LAX, BFL, IRS, the labor board, the County of Kern, the City of Bakersfield and the list of people telling me how I can conduct business goes on and on. I didn't take on LAX in court over the matter. Sometimes the rules of the playground change and sometimes the change comes right down to the rules of the sandbox we are playing in on the playground. Apparently 400 other limo companies licensed to do business at LAX swallowed their pill and went on about business as usual knowing it was just the way it is. There are certain fees and "surcharges" which appear on my phone bill each month that I don't think I should have to pay but it is not worthy of my time to fight it. It's just the way it is. Instead, I will buy another car, make more revenue simply to pay another tax. Once you build the fleet to a certain level, you just pay the tax when it becomes due. I choose to focus my time on building, building and building. We all must pick and choose our battles.
That's not to say that I don't admire you Gunny for having the balls and money to fight the battle that I truly believe you will not win. You are standing up for what you believe in and I have already acknowledged that. Now, if your whole Florida association and even non-member companies were joining you in your fight, I would believe you might have a chance. That doesn't mean I won't keep my fingers crossed for you.
As I promised you, I printed your material, made copies and distributed them to people at the LCT show while I had face time. I spoke on your behalf face-to-face with Fran Shane. I spoke with LCT management, NLA Board Members and anyone else who would take the time to read what you wrote or hear what you had to say. Being quite candid, I was rebuffed by several who recommended I not carry your torch for various reasons. Most are amused with you. Collectively, you were portrayed as someone who has a lot of time to spend on a keyboard and no matter what postive answers I could generate that you would always find more negative. I was not and am not dissuaded and I have specifically asked board member Rick Brown from San Diego to review your information, discuss it with other board members and see if there is any merit to what you are saying and how we could help IF YOU WERE A MEMBER of the National Lackey Association (which they all think is very funny). So, I AM still trying to spread your message and I continue to wish you success but can't help how I feel about the projected outcome.

quote:

Originally posted by Dean Schuler:
Document the unlawful abuse and then HANG THEM HIGH... Having done just that many times, I can share with you that it is the best feeling in the world.

It smells like....victory!

Document the unlawful abuse and then HANG THEM HIGH... Having done just that many times, I can share with you that it is the best feeling in the world.

Get the harassment on film .

quote:

Originally posted by BirmLimo - Michael Birmingham:
Just an update on my battle here in T-Town , Ohio. My latest fax showing my PUCO and USDOT compliance to the city has gotten them to back off. They have been advised if they do try to ticket us , we will take it to Federal Court.

On another note , this has not stopped the Police from making us move off curbs( at art museum for pics ) during weddings while allowing more sub serviant companies to stay put. I am educating my chauffeurs how to document this harrassment.

On a more positive note , while all my attempts to motivate PUCO or DOT or Political reps to look into all the illegal ops here in town have gone to waste , I have a family friend / judge that is becoming more and more interested. ( especially since some of these operators have gov't contracts )

Is it any wonder that the city of Toledo has nearly 9% unemployment ? With the way things are done around here , I'm surprised any company at all would want to be here.

Just an update on my battle here in T-Town , Ohio. My latest fax showing my PUCO and USDOT compliance to the city has gotten them to back off. They have been advised if they do try to ticket us , we will take it to Federal Court.

On another note , this has not stopped the Police from making us move off curbs( at art museum for pics ) during weddings while allowing more sub serviant companies to stay put. I am educating my chauffeurs how to document this harrassment.

On a more positive note , while all my attempts to motivate PUCO or DOT or Political reps to look into all the illegal ops here in town have gone to waste , I have a family friend / judge that is becoming more and more interested. ( especially since some of these operators have gov't contracts )

Is it any wonder that the city of Toledo has nearly 9% unemployment ? With the way things are done around here , I'm surprised any company at all would want to be here.

quote:

Originally posted by Viperion Corporation / Limos.com:
I think any business owner would be pissed off if governments restricted their ability to compete and to conduct business.

Hypothetically Jim, if LA County suddenly started charging $1500 per car, per year for licensing, you'd be fighting mad. Then to make matters worse, Ventura County decides to join in and charge a $500 per car licensing fee to enter their county. Then to put icing on the cake, Kern County decides to enact its own limo licensing rule to the tune of $10,000 per year.

So if you have 29 cars, your looking at close to $70,000 a year just to license your vehicles to go anywhere.

I think this is why you see many pissed off at regulation by county and local entities.

The fight against regulation may not seem real until it hits into your backyard and starts to restrict where you can do business.

It would piss me off if some internet "watch-dog" told me Limos.com would not be available to California residents unless I paid a tax to some government.

To make matters worse, these regulations are often lobbied by our neighborhood competitors who operate under the guise of public safety when their motives are only to restrict competition from other counties.

I think this is what Gunny has been trying to say for the past "X" years.

Now lets expand this to include each jurisdiction also requires every vehicle to be inspected, each has a different insurance requirement, they each have varying rules that places restrictions on types of vehicles you may operate including color & lettering schemes, other agencies (APs, cruise terminals etc.) within each jurisdiction also have permitting fees and vehicle inspection requirements & each driver must obtain a license from each jurisdiction. And to top it all off there are 3 NLA Board Members in the state who support this either directly or indirectly.

In Florida a little different story:

NLA Florida Based Directors
Carla Boroday/ Committee Member TLPA
Julie Herring
Ron Sorci

TLPA Limo Div Commitee Chairs
Bob Boroday/ Pres Fl Limousine Assoc*
Carla Boroday/ Director Fl Limo Assoc/Fl Ground Transportation Assoc
Dave Shaw/ Pres West Fl Livery Assoc/ Director Fl Ground Transportation Assoc

The Registered Agent For the Florida Ground Transportation Association (the umbrella for all limo assoc) & Treasurer of the Florida Limousine Assoc?Taxi Queen


*The Florida Limousine Assoc located on the south east coast of Florida, Ft Lauderdale - Miami etc.. LCT/NLA 2004 Assoc of the Year. Website shows 7 operator members? Something wrong with this?

I think any business owner would be pissed off if governments restricted their ability to compete and to conduct business.

Hypothetically Jim, if LA County suddenly started charging $1500 per car, per year for licensing, you'd be fighting mad. Then to make matters worse, Ventura County decides to join in and charge a $500 per car licensing fee to enter their county. Then to put icing on the cake, Kern County decides to enact its own limo licensing rule to the tune of $10,000 per year.

So if you have 29 cars, your looking at close to $70,000 a year just to license your vehicles to go anywhere.

I think this is why you see many pissed off at regulation by county and local entities.

The fight against regulation may not seem real until it hits into your backyard and starts to restrict where you can do business.

It would piss me off if some internet "watch-dog" told me Limos.com would not be available to California residents unless I paid a tax to some government.

To make matters worse, these regulations are often lobbied by our neighborhood competitors who operate under the guise of public safety when their motives are only to restrict competition from other counties.

I think this is what Gunny has been trying to say for the past "X" years.

quote:

Originally posted by Limo Scene:
You are probably right Gunny. I probably don't know much about the box I operate in which I consder to be California and Nevada and consider myself to be an expert on. But, after all, it is MY box. It has successfully worked for me for 16 years. While you may be more boned up on the laws and bickering, I spend my time marketing and building my own business. In 16 years, starting as a one car operation and building it to 29 in that time period, I think what I am doing is working. I prefer to take care of my own business first and I really don't give a rat's ass what's going on in some other neck of the woods 3000 miles from me. My articles are about common business sense, ideas and policies. No offense to you that you have much more time than me to do your homework. You obviously have issues with your perceived injustices and I think everyone should fight for what they believe in even if they will never win. It makes us feel better that we tried.

I don't start a fight unless I plan to win. If that takes every spare minute I have to educate myself on the issues it's a sacrifice I am most willing to make. Some make history & some just read about it. With your lack of knowledge & understanding of the issues & laws, I'll take the "no win" comment as considering the source. Kind of ironic though how my lead