Limos.com Limo-Forum Limo Forum - Limousine Industry Discussion, News, Business TRADE ASSOCIATIONS & ORGANIZATIONS THE N.L.A (National Limousine Association) Operator or Broker?
Limo-Forum Limo Forum - Limousine Industry Discussion, News, Business TRADE ASSOCIATIONS & ORGANIZATIONS THE N.L.A (National Limousine Association) Operator or Broker?Page 1 2
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Limo God Location: Spring Hill Florida
Registered: August 17, 2004
Posts: 2742
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Posted
Between numbers posted in LCT & LCT mailings for trade shows I see companies with fleet size claims & Guest Speaker Bios with fleet size claims that just didn't seem to make sense.
When I read so&so started off in whatever year & now "operates" X amount of vehicles, that X amount that he/she operates is what is under the physical control of the operator. In other words if every driver walked off the job the garage will still be holding X amount of vehicles. There are certain cities where the fleet size can be confirmed within minutes with one being NYC whereas the TLC website lists all base operators & vehicles licensed to the base. What I'm seeing is "Broker" businesses claiming to be operatives of large fleets whereas in reality all they have is a desk & a phone so-to-speak & most importantly, "no VFH licensing authority". Presenting to the Industry & the General Public any claims of maintaining large fleet operations to give the impression of being a large limousine service is dishonest. I'm waiting on confirmation from the NYC TLC on 2 such companies so being represented in LCT advertising. Does anyone have a different take regarding what the meaning of "operating XX amount of vehicles" should imply? "Suing Tampa Limo Regulator In Federal Court For The Right To Use Fuel Efficient Vehicles & Violations Of Federal & State Preemptions. What Has Your National Or Local Assoc. Done For You Lately? " Visit www.thefita.com |
Limo Master Location: seattle, wa
Registered: January 03, 2006
Posts: 413
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Posted
Good investigating Gunny.
There should be new list out. Top 100 with leased cars, company owned cars and number of employees. |
Limo Master Location: Las Vegas, NV
Registered: August 05, 2007
Posts: 259
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Posted
LCT at it again. Top 100 list a fraud
What do you think? Have a good night Dave |
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Limo God Location: Spring Hill Florida
Registered: August 17, 2004
Posts: 2742
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Posted
Hey Dave, You come up with the Title & I'll start a new...... That is a new tomorrow........ I'm tired..... "Suing Tampa Limo Regulator In Federal Court For The Right To Use Fuel Efficient Vehicles & Violations Of Federal & State Preemptions. What Has Your National Or Local Assoc. Done For You Lately? " Visit www.thefita.com |
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Limo Master Location: Las Vegas, NV
Registered: August 05, 2007
Posts: 259
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Posted
Gunny, this info is too big to be on this forum. I would recommend starting a new forum in regards to the numbers.
Dave |
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Limo God Location: Spring Hill Florida
Registered: August 17, 2004
Posts: 2742
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Posted
To expand a little on Wade's remarks. To operate in NYC the motor carrier needs to obtain a base license from the TLC & from the base, tier I permits are issued to vehicles that work for that base. Tier I permits means that the vehicle is authorized to provide intra-city transportation. Now when we look up Valera on the NYCTLC site (Blackcar base)we can pull the unique base number assigned. Then we pop over to the TLC listing of permitted vehicles arranged by base number. The listing shows who the vehicles are registered to & therefore it can be determined if the Operator owning the base is running his/her cars, using Independent Operators or a mixture of both. Another example, under the limousine base listing we can pull up DavEl's number & jump over to the vehicles permitted & see that the vehicles permitted for DavEl are in fact registered to DavEL. I don't remember the actual numbers for DavEl but lets use the figure of 60. Valera claims a fleet size of over 200 yet the TLC vehicle listing shows none of the vehicles registered to Valera (all IO's) DavEl claims a fleet size of 60 in NYC & the TLC listing shows 60 cars registered to DavEl. Who has the actual larger fleet? "Suing Tampa Limo Regulator In Federal Court For The Right To Use Fuel Efficient Vehicles & Violations Of Federal & State Preemptions. What Has Your National Or Local Assoc. Done For You Lately? " Visit www.thefita.com |
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Limo God Location: Baton Rouge, LA USA
Registered: October 16, 2000
Posts: 1674
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Posted
Black cars are companies in NYC that operate like cabs with no meters. They sell vouchers to large companies and the clients give vouchers to the drivers instead of handling money. They are usually I/O's that pay a radio fee to the base company. Wade Randolph |
Participant Registered: July 25, 2007
Posts: 15
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Posted
What exactly is a black card. What do these numbers mean(200IC's)? |
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Limo God Location: Spring Hill Florida
Registered: August 17, 2004
Posts: 2742
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Posted
Three more Lacking Credible Truth to add to the list:
Metro (Mi) 310/19 Presidential 88/41 Diamond 73/15 "Suing Tampa Limo Regulator In Federal Court For The Right To Use Fuel Efficient Vehicles & Violations Of Federal & State Preemptions. What Has Your National Or Local Assoc. Done For You Lately? " Visit www.thefita.com |
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Limo God Location: Spring Hill Florida
Registered: August 17, 2004
Posts: 2742
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Posted
AKA "Limo Envy" September's LCT also ran an omission from the top 100, West Suburban Traveler's Limousine Inc. out of Illinois claiming a fleet of 135. Did a check on the good ole 5990 vehicle Illinois VFH listing & no WST! Paid a visit to their website & there in B&W, "Each vehicle is independently owned & operated". Bottom line, there was no omission! Just another layer of bullshit presented to the Industry by the "Lacking Credible Truth" folks. "Suing Tampa Limo Regulator In Federal Court For The Right To Use Fuel Efficient Vehicles & Violations Of Federal & State Preemptions. What Has Your National Or Local Assoc. Done For You Lately? " Visit www.thefita.com |
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Limo God Location: Baton Rouge, LA USA
Registered: October 16, 2000
Posts: 1674
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Posted
OMG I can't believe they would lie that much. Well on the other hand I should have expected it. This industry has always had a "how many cars do you have" mentality. Wade Randolph |
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Limo God Location: Spring Hill Florida
Registered: August 17, 2004
Posts: 2742
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Posted
In the September 2007 issue of LCT Luff does a feature article on the "Growth Trends Of The Top 100 Fleets". Yes Jim we know that you just took the numbers presented & didn't do any research verifying what the Operators are presenting to the Industry as their size. This is not, I repeat "is not" a slam against Big Dawg as the research into the numbers has been going on for a couple of months & now is prime time to reveal what the research has played out so far.
Research methodology: We went right to the VFH licensing departments (state & local) & simply asked how many vehicles does a particular operator have licensed and/or how many permits are issued. Where sites list each vehicle & owner such as the NYCTLC site, only vehicles registered to the operator were counted. Sorry guys but having 200 ICs who own their own vehicles does not count as an operators fleet size & placing such in fleet totals is misleading bullshit. LCT may buy it, but we shall not! I am not going to list each individual source (PUC,DMV,TLC etc.). If someone wants to know a particular source let me know & I will post it. Listed will be Operator followed by LCT No. then research No. Valera Global 211/0 Diva 206/79 LeGrande Affaire 160/56 Bauer's 144/79 Aventura 119/48 Farrels 105/82 Rudy's 103/104 O'Hare 100/71 Hy's 94/66 Wynne 90/20 London Town Cars 77/76 A Premier 67/43 Capricorn 65/49 VIP 63/63 Smart Cars 63/0 Lifestyle 63/49 Corporate Connection 62/11 El Paseo 61/39 American Limos 59/19 Above All 54/17 BKTT 50/35 Westwind 53/8 Action 48/30 Reliable 64/53 Tennessee 70/34 Eagle 81/71 "Suing Tampa Limo Regulator In Federal Court For The Right To Use Fuel Efficient Vehicles & Violations Of Federal & State Preemptions. What Has Your National Or Local Assoc. Done For You Lately? " Visit www.thefita.com |
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Limo God Location: Spring Hill Florida
Registered: August 17, 2004
Posts: 2742
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Posted
Verified CC (Valera) in NYC. They hold a Black Car base license with over 200 IC's placed under their base with names such as:
Alexa Ent Meadowbrook Ent Rocky Ridge Inc Night Owl Trans D&A Trans Parkway Trans Classy Limo Svc Pelican Ent Oasis Ent Angelmae Travel First Choice Int (numerous individual owner operators) These are the Operators, not CC (Valera). They (operators) walk, no cars in the stable. Numerous licensing authorities responding to request submitted on the reported Big Operators in the Nation. Some very interesting results to be published when all compiled. "Suing Tampa Limo Regulator In Federal Court For The Right To Use Fuel Efficient Vehicles & Violations Of Federal & State Preemptions. What Has Your National Or Local Assoc. Done For You Lately? " Visit www.thefita.com |
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Limo Master Location: seattle, wa
Registered: January 03, 2006
Posts: 413
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Posted
That is it, lets all move to NYC where we can 10000000% our business and fleet. Well about about doing affliated work. Every limo companys says that they have cars in all major cities around the world. I wonder if that counts as part of your fleet even though i use the guys in a different city only twice a year. |
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Limo Master Location: Las Vegas, NV
Registered: August 05, 2007
Posts: 259
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Posted
Dave, if this is so, I have an infinite amount of equipment! I am the LARGEST operator anywhere. LOL !!!
How stupid is that! |
Limo Protege Location: Los Angeles
Registered: August 29, 2004
Posts: 88
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Posted
Perhaps CC is a franchised operation.
As I read through the LCT East bios I found this: Rod Barfield Valera Global (formerly Computer Car) In his role as President of Valera Global, Rod oversees all dispatch and chauffeur operations including franchise and chauffeur recruitment, training, supervision and fleet maintenance. I think the key word in this bio is "franchise." It's very possible that Valera Global has franchise agreements with numerous operators in the tri-state area. If this is the case, they may be including their franchisees' vehicles as part of their fleet. In this situation, a few operators may share a name, but it's still a huge misrepresentation of fleet size. This is the equivalent of including affiliates and farm-outs as part of a base fleet. As stated earlier " X amount that he/she operates is what is under the physical control of the operator." This is the only way to correctly assess a fleet. |
Limo God Location: Lupton mich USA
Registered: May 30, 2002
Posts: 2256
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Posted
Guess you could say I have a fleet of nearly 100 Buses since I broker for several Bus operators. In reality all I have is a Telephone and a yellow pages ad.
David E. Merrill |
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Limo God Location: Spring Hill Florida
Registered: August 17, 2004
Posts: 2742
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Posted
Cabbies many times owns the vehicles & leases them out to drivers. Brokers own a computer & phone & that's about it. Prime example is a complaint filed against Nationwide in the Consumer Forum. There is even a link that by all indications presents this company as a limousine service. They claim to be "Ground Transportation Specialist". With a 212 area code, this is a NYC based business with no registration with the TLC. Who holds them accountable for failure to perform? If I was competing in a market as such with my own fleet, I would advertise: Our Reservationist Our Dispatchers Our Vehicles Our Chauffeurs Our Responsibility You can use this Scott, no problem! "Suing Tampa Limo Regulator In Federal Court For The Right To Use Fuel Efficient Vehicles & Violations Of Federal & State Preemptions. What Has Your National Or Local Assoc. Done For You Lately? " Visit www.thefita.com |
the shiznit Location: Lou., Ky & all other states
Registered: January 27, 2006
Posts: 376
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Posted
Aren't taxi cab companies kinda operated like this? They do own the vehicles, but they are much cheaper than limos, and with the rent they are bringing in every month basically buys two cars, so they really don't owe anything in the event that they did shut down, they would just liquidate the fleet. The drivers work when they want and are dispatched from a central location. Don't you think that this will lead to a degradation of customer service? Providing insurance to the transportation industry since 1884. Phil T. Brun Kiely, Hines & Associates Insurance 800-295-1897 Ext. 2756 502-569-2756 Direct pbrun@kielyhines.com |
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Limo God Location: Spring Hill Florida
Registered: August 17, 2004
Posts: 2742
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Posted
Again what got me going on this was advertisement received from LCT concerning the LCT Eastern conference & I was reading through it & Computer Car stuck out. On a whim I brought up the TLC site & checked to see if CC was listed as a Base for starters & from there could find out how many cars in their stable. Can't find them on the base so therefore no base number to check permitted vehicles. Now as a CYA i must point out, CC can be physically based outside of NYC & therefore not operating a NYC base & even have their own cars.
There are large operators on the base listing & therefore verifying vehicle count is easy as well as if the vehicles are registered under the company or indivuals indicating ICs. Here are a few that many will recognize. Those marked with * indicates ICs for the vehicle count: DavEl 100 Carey* 229 Capricorn 49 CLS* 91 Music Express 82 Empire 337 So regardless of if owning the fleet or using IC's, these companies are licensed with the TLC as Limousine Operators. "Suing Tampa Limo Regulator In Federal Court For The Right To Use Fuel Efficient Vehicles & Violations Of Federal & State Preemptions. What Has Your National Or Local Assoc. Done For You Lately? " Visit www.thefita.com |
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