The Limos.com Forum Has Moved!!!

Dec 2005

Publisher's Page:

Guess what? That long 9 passenger or more vehicle you're driving around in that was built by a "coach builder" is not a limousine! It is a "BUS"! Surprise, Surprise.

Dispatches:

Operator is annoyed by misusue of 10pax limousines (1st correction needed, it is a bus). The Operator didn't want his name published as he/she is afraid that questioning the establishment may be offensive. Sounds like any of the wimps on this site?

Industry News:

Operators must focus on value says NBTA Prez. If you don't know what the NBTA is sign up for the amateur portion of the "professional v. amateur" thread.

Limo Scene:

The NLA still trying to unsrew the GG fiasco by dealing with the IRS now.

In Focus:

Aloha's main man Phil Restivo is featured.

NLA:

DOT & CDL Regulation Enforcement Intensified

9 Candidates Vie for 6 NLA Board Seats. I wonder how many of them know any transportation laws beyond company SOP?

The Cover:

Another gaudy bus with a dance floor & pole for entertainment.

Interesting reading for those who desire to expand their knowledge of the industry beyond changing light bulbs.

Crap, I'm starting to think like Mr. Stuffy.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: gunny,

Parting words from NLA Prez Jeff Greene
"While our accomplishments have been many during the past two years, we have much more to take on ... and we will"

Sorry, I don't see it. The MANY accomplishments that is.

"We continue to fight for our rights as operators and continue to bird dog legislation that could have adverse effects on all of us"

The only thing I've seen (actually read from official recordings) on a local level was the GM for NLA Director Julie Herring standing in front of the Tampa regulatory commission & urging that commission to deny market entry of new applicants only to appear the next month to backpeddle after threatening phone calls came in (be careful who one opposes).

Over the past 2 years, regulation on the National level has gotten more restrictive & doing business more expensive despite the claims of much accomplishment by the NLA.

The election results are in & Scott Solombrino (DavEl) is back in a directors chair.

Unfortunately Rick Versace out of Boca Raton didn't get elected. I say unfortunately because at least he recognizes the burdens that repetitious licensing places on the motor carriers. I'm hopeful that he will use the new association recently formed as a launching pad to fight for change in Florida.

quote:

Originally posted by Dean Schuler:
Gunny, I like the direction that the NLA has taken the past ten years with a lobbyist. I support the NLA wholeheartly in their efforts here. Where they are challenged is in their interface with the other strong forces in the ground transportation industry. EXAMPLE: Limousine Digest is not allowed on NLA Association Conference Calls. Can you imagine anything more screwed up than that ? The Limousine Industry's largest publication is not invited. That alone speaks volumes about the cartel and their definition of the hired car trade.

Well Dean, for the first part, I've been around since the end of 93 & you since I was a 19 year old Cpl. The question I would bring forth, is this Industry better off today than it was 10 years ago? Lobbying is great if it produces something, anything that benefits the Industry as a whole.

You're fighting your battles, I'm fighting mine,south Fl just formed a new association to fight issues similar to what I've been yelling about & the NLA Queen is pissing & moaning about paying her drivers OT.

For the second part, "What they don't want you to know" is the title of this thread & Digest isn't the chosen "feel good, we do no wrong" rag for the NLA.

Gunny, I like the direction that the NLA has taken the past ten years with a lobbyist. I support the NLA wholeheartly in their efforts here. Where they are challenged is in their interface with the other strong forces in the ground transportation industry. EXAMPLE: Limousine Digest is not allowed on NLA Association Conference Calls. Can you imagine anything more screwed up than that ? The Limousine Industry's largest publication is not invited. That alone speaks volumes about the cartel and their definition of the hired car trade.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Dean Schuler,

Breaking News
On 21 November 2007, the DOT General Counsel finally responded to an congressional inquiry dated 22 January 2007 regarding airports abiding by the provisions mandated by the RIDE Act.

The General Counsel notified the members of Congress that an advisory notice was sent to airports on 5 November 2007.

It is obvious, the dates are indicative on the priority of this matter & the airports are implementing corrective measures as swiftly as possible.

So, did the NLA accomplish anything of significant importance during 2007?

quote:

Originally posted by Dean Schuler:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dean Schuler:
Transparency is a prime business value. [QUOTE]

Is this sort of like NLA Leadership being honest with its' members?

quote:

Originally posted by Dean Schuler:
Transparency is a prime business value.

quote:

Originally posted by Limo Scene:
Tony, I was not implying Espie should be the next prez, just that she is "active". She is not in a management or corporate officer position but thank God you understood what Iwas trying to say and Gunny, thanks for trying to understand what I was saying.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Dean Schuler,

Tony, I was not implying Espie should be the next prez, just that she is "active". She is not in a management or corporate officer position but thank God you understood what Iwas trying to say and Gunny, thanks for trying to understand what I was saying.

quote:

Originally posted by TxLimoGuy:
This has turned into one of the funniest threads ever.

if you guys don't know want an entity is take your toys and go home.

Entity; a general term used for any institution, company, corporation, partnership. How close am I?

Luff is correct about what is a Member. I never once considered myself to be a member of the NLA. My company is a member.

If you are a sole proprietorship then you, the individual are the member A coporate entity, then the corporation is the member

All active NLA 'members' must provide proof of insurance. Do you think the insurance certificate I provide has my name on it or my company's name? Who is the member then?

Sole proprietorship will indicate a d/b/a on the policy. A corporation will show the corporate entity on the policy which should match-up with vehicle registration & business licensing including vehicle permitting.

Could it be any more clear when the rules state "In order to qualify as a Director of the NLA, the individual must be a corporate officer in a Regular Active Member" that the Member is the company, not the individual?

The Regular Active Member is the individual or entity who is a limousine business. If IMAJERK,Inc owns URAJERK Limousines who is the Regular Active Member? The Ga PSC shows GCL Acquisition LLC as the principal owner of Greene Classic Limousine. So the million dollar question is, who is the Regular Active Member? GCL Acquisition or Green Classic Limousine?

Seems very cut and dry to me that if a company is a NLA member and is sold, the company is still a member of the NLA.

So what is being implied here is if Regular Active Member IMAJERK, Inc decides to cut loose its' URAJERK Limo Service and WERJERKS, Inc purchases the company, WERJERKS are automatically deemed a Regular Active Member of the NLA?

Now if someone in a large limo company nominated their dispatch manager for NLA President it would be a pretty safe assumption that person is probably not a corporate officer of the Regular Active Member. If however the person is the head honcho of the company, it is entirely probable they are a corporate officer. Legal definition of corporate officer varies from state to state.

I would venture to say that the definition would fall under the laws of the state in which the NLA holds office and its'charter was drawn.

Sorry Jim, I don't think your admin assistant would count as a corporate officer unless you have her named as such or she has fiduciary responsibility and liability for the company's actions.

Agreed, the entity is the member and when sold the entity remains the member as it's the entity that is the actual business & those who assume the control of the entity assume all the benefits along with liabilities and contractual obligations of the entity.

Good luck in collecting a past debt from the entity under new ownership or holding the new owners feet to the fire to abide by an entity contractual obligation.

Of course with the term "entity" simply meaning a general "if the shoe fits" term for company, corporation, partnership etc., if the entity sells the entity & partnerships or corporations of the sold entity are dissolved is the entity deemed to be the same entity who entered into the contractual agreement with the NLA?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: gunny,

This has turned into one of the funniest threads ever.

if you guys don't know want an entity is take your toys and go home.

Luff is correct about what is a Member. I never once considered myself to be a member of the NLA. My company is a member.

All active NLA 'members' must provide proof of insurance. Do you think the insurance certificate I provide has my name on it or my company's name? Who is the member then?

Could it be any more clear when the rules state "In order to qualify as a Director of the NLA, the individual must be a corporate officer in a Regular Active Member" that the Member is the company, not the individual?

Seems very cut and dry to me that if a company is a NLA member and is sold, the company is still a member of the NLA.

Now if someone in a large limo company nominated their dispatch manager for NLA President it would be a pretty safe assumption that person is probably not a corporate officer of the Regular Active Member. If however the person is the head honcho of the company, it is entirely probable they are a corporate officer. Legal definition of corporate officer varies from state to state.

Sorry Jim, I don't think your admin assistant would count as a corporate officer unless you have her named as such or she has fiduciary responsibility and liability for the company's actions.

If you want to quote bylaws, let's do it right. First we must define "Regular Active Member" according to the bylaws. Article 3 Section 1-a states a Regular Active Member "is a limousine business (NOT A HUMAN) that has control of one or more vehicles, meeting all applicable licensing and regulatory requirements......

My administrative assistant attends the Vegas show and all GCLA meetings. She is "active" in both. She is just as active in both as I am by extension of her job. She is a "designated representative" of Limousine Scene and acts on behalf of Limousine Scene.

The "active member" of the NLA IS Greene's Classic Limousine. Greene's Classic Limousine has never "ceased to be an owner of a limousine business" and even if they did, the board and membership committee could easily make him an honorary member per Article 3, Section B.

If we played out your scenario, you would not have to purchase a new membership to become a member of the NLA because the member, as listed on the fabulous book is, da dah.....Limousine Scene. Limousine Scene would have already paid it's membership dues for the 12 month period and the only thing that would change would be the contact name would change from my name to your name Gunny.

Further from the bylaws, "In order to qualify as a DIRECTOR of the NLA, the individual (representing the Regular Active Member company) must be a corporate officer in a Regular Active Member that has been a Regular Active Member for two years".

So, that being said, Jeff HAS been a corporate officer at Greene's Classic for more than two years any way you slice it. Greene's Classic Limousine since 1994.

You and I both know the two year rule was meant to make sure some new GM doesn't get on the board and have no clue about the industry.

Think of Boston Coach, owned by Fidelity. There is no "owner". It is a group of shareholders. The entity, Boston Coach is the Regular Active Member of the NLA and one of their employees attends NLA meetings as a representative of the regular active member, Boston Coach.

I am not personal friends with Jeff. I have no reason to defend him. I have no information about his situation but I do know that no individual can be a member of the NLA unless you are appointed as an honorary member by the board. Only limo COMPANIES, associations and suppliers may be members of the NLA and again, it is a company membership, not an individual membership as you are implying.

I'm sorry Gunny but you are simply incorrect in your analysis of the situation.

quote:

Originally posted by Limo Scene:
Quit grabbing at straws. You know damned well he is actively in the business.

Seeing Big Dawg likes throwing out scenarios, lets try this for size:

Luff operates Limousine Scene in Bakersfield & is a Regular Active Member of the NLA.

Luff receives a buy out offer from Gunny that he just can't refuse.

Gunny has other business dealings & can't be concerned with the day-to-day operations of the limo service so as part of the sale he requires Luff to stay on in a paid management position for a term of not less then one year.

All is agreed & the sale is set, contracts are drawn with everyone meets in the lawyers office for the big buy/sale.

As soon as Luff signs the papers giving up ownership of Limousine Scene he "automatically" ceases to be a Regular Active Member of the NLA. (ref: Section B, NLA BYLAWS)

For Limousine Scene to carry the NLA logo, the new owner, Gunny, must apply for Regular Active Membership in the NLA as he and/or officers of his corporation as registered with the State of California are now the "limousine business".

As a new Regular Active Member of the NLA, Gunny and the corporate officers are inelegible to hold/run for NLA Directorship for at least 2 years. (ref: Section G,c, NLA BYLAWS)

Grasping straws? Hardly.

Grasping straws is insinuating the anyone in a management position could fill out an NLA membership application under the assumption that they are a officer of the corporation even though that employee owns and controls nada.

The situation with Greene as it stands now, is just a rumor. No one knows the true deal & as is common within the NLA, chances are no one will know until maybe after he passes the gavel early next year & we see how long it takes for him to bail out of the business completely.

What started this was a simple question e-mailed from me to another Operator:

11/08/07 17:58:56 (from me)
"What's this rumor going around that Greene sold his limo biz some months ago & is just hanging on until his NLA Prez term is up? You hear anything?"

11/08/2007 6:11:46 PM (Response From Operator)
"I did catch some rumor that Jeff Greene no longer owned Greene Classic but was an employee. Didn't hear anything about the NLA term associated. Just that he had sold and as part of the sale he was remaining on in a "hand holding position."

11/08/2007 10:27 PM (from Jeff Greene)
"That's a new one? I assure you it isn't true, but who has time for rumors."

Allow the readers to judge........

I have no problem with the corporate officer scenario. I do prefer transparency in all dealings as anything else is playing " let's pretend ".

quote:

Originally posted by Limo Scene:
You do not need to be a share holder to be a corporate officer. I tried to explain this. Any corporate board can appoint/deputize a person to act as an officer of and for the corporation to carry out business of the corporation. In another time in life, I ran a 25,000 square foot night club. The corporation was in New Mexico. I was the vice-president and general manager. My name was not on the liquor license. Yet, I paid all the bills, incurred all the bills and operated it on behalf of the corporation. I was on the business license issued by the city in my position as VP and a person who would be served court papers on a local level on behalf of the company - but I repeat - I did NOT have ANY stock ownership of the club. I was an employee with a title of VP, a corporate officer position.

If Jeff conducts business for the corporation of Greene's, no matter who owns it, he is a corporate officer of the company. He need not hold any stock in the company. He need not be on any licenses. He receives a PAYCHECK to perform management of the business. This I am quite sure of as I have given him orders recently.

There are reasons for things to be done on paper sometimes. I am not saying I know anything about Jeff's situation and I certainly am not implying that I do, I am just saying that I have my own issues in life that have caused things to be in someone else's name for one reason or another during my life.

Quit grabbing at straws. You know damned well he is actively in the business.

You do not need to be a share holder to be a corporate officer. I tried to explain this. Any corporate board can appoint/deputize a person to act as an officer of and for the corporation to carry out business of the corporation. In another time in life, I ran a 25,000 square foot night club. The corporation was in New Mexico. I was the vice-president and general manager. My name was not on the liquor license. Yet, I paid all the bills, incurred all the bills and operated it on behalf of the corporation. I was on the business license issued by the city in my position as VP and a person who would be served court papers on a local level on behalf of the company - but I repeat - I did NOT have ANY stock ownership of the club. I was an employee with a title of VP, a corporate officer position.

If Jeff conducts business for the corporation of Greene's, no matter who owns it, he is a corporate officer of the company. He need not hold any stock in the company. He need not be on any licenses. He receives a PAYCHECK to perform management of the business. This I am quite sure of as I have given him orders recently.

There are reasons for things to be done on paper sometimes. I am not saying I know anything about Jeff's situation and I certainly am not implying that I do, I am just saying that I have my own issues in life that have caused things to be in someone else's name for one reason or another during my life.

Quit grabbing at straws. You know damned well he is actively in the business.

Adherence to the by-laws is of course paramount for any credible organization. The historic definition of someone eligible for the NLA Board is actual ownership of a company-this was set up by the founders of the NLA.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Dean Schuler,

quote:

Originally posted by Limo Scene:
You are right Yankee. If he hold the title of president, with or without stock options he is most certainly eligible to be the president of the NLA. A corporate officer does not have to have stock or ownership in the company to serve as a corporate office.

To hold a NLA Directorship the individual "must" be a corporate officer of an Regular Active Member. Not company prez, manager, lead chauffeur or any other honorary position the Regular Active Member may bestow upon an employee.

So the million dollar question is, is Jeff Greene registered with the Ga Division of Corporations as a Corporate Officer of GCL Acquisition (Green Classic Limousine controlling entity)? If he is, then under the NLA BYLAWS he is eligible to serve in a directorship position. If not, there is no standing for him to hold that position pursuant to the BYLAWS of the NLA.

Bill Goerl sold Clique Limousine a few years ago yet he has stayed on in a non-corporate/advisory position & even uses Clique's phone number for his other business enterprise. Is he eligible to be a Director of the NLA?

Now NLA Director Ron Sorci, Aventura Limousine & Transportation (as recorded in the Director's Listing) is a different animal. The NLA Listing shows the membership as Aventura Worldwide Transportation with the registered Regular Active Member being Neil Goodman. There is no Florida corporate listing for Adventura Worldwide. There are however other Aventura entity listings including Aventura Limousine & Transportation showing Goodman as the only corporate agent. And, there is an Aventura Limo & Bus Service, Inc with Goodman registered as PD & Sorci listed as CFO. So the million dollar question in this scenario is if Regular Active Member, Aventura Worldwide Transportation (Neil Goodman) is not a Florida Registered Corporation & Goodman is the only corporate agent registered for Aventura Limousine & Transportation, is Sorci holding a Directorship postition in violation of the NLA BYLAWS?

You are right Yankee. If he hold the title of president, with or without stock options he is most certainly eligible to be the president of the NLA. A corporate officer does not have to have stock or ownership in the company to serve as a corporate office. I have been the vice-president of our local NASCAR track and I don't own any NASCAR stock but I am empowered to write checks, sign checks, sign legal binding documents, make policy etc. as an officer of the corporation.

I checked out records and we have given Greene four jobs this year and all of them were given to Jeff Greene at Greene Classic Limousine. It is obvious he is still in the biz and that should be the most important aspect.

By the way, just to dispel something, LCT does NOT have a management contract with NLA. Bobit Business Media does. I have mentioned this before. Bobit is a very large publishing company with many more businesses than LCT. You could literally walk around Bobit offices all day long and probably not have time to meet everyone in that massive building.

The LCT staff meets once a week. We NEVER talk about the NLA, the management of the NLA or anything else regarding the NLA unless it is an issue we are reporting on. It is not management by LCT so LCT would have no more clout, authority or knowledge than Digest would about this issue. In fact, I don't think NLA management decisions are even made in the same office that houses LCT to tell you my honest opinion.