The Limos.com Forum Has Moved!!!

Dues renewal notice arrived this week. Trying to think of a reason to write that check. Our 10 month old small association has the only State mandated Transportation Commission backstepping utilizing a multi-pronged attack. Solombrino gave me a song and dance why the NLA can't step in (politics) despite the fact that the suits are based on a strong legal foundation. We have attorneys investing time on the cheap. The Pacific Legal Foundation is in the fight. Yet, the NLA can not even address the issues we are bringing forth and bring some muscle to the table. Not monetary support but some moral support and backing in the corner. Taking on a abusive regulatory agency that borders on criminal activities and body slamming them will send a strong message nationally. The NLA has failed to live up to their advertising and I think I'd rather write that check to my upstart association as it will do more good in my backyard. Lead, follow or get the hell out of the way!

"The NLA is more important in this economy than at any other time in our history," says NLA President Scott Solombrino. "Our association was formed in 1985 to protect our members from unfair government regulations and taxation." LCT July 2003

Licensing in Florida costs operators an average of $5,000 per vehicle a year. "Its absolutely unconstitutional," said NLA President Scott Solombrino. "It might take a class-action suit to change it." LCT April 2003

Licensing is the top problem in Florida, with each county setting its own requirements. This means operators cannot drive from their home counties to another to pick up or drop off a client unless they have licenses to operate in both counties. In addition, Florida operators need city licenses. LCT April 2003

"No local governmental entity shall unduly restrict or impose any economic regulation upon the use of a non-public sector buses engaged solely in intercounty transportation." CH341F.S.

"Let Us Free Business From Needless Regulation"
President George Bush 2/2/2005 State of the Union

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LCT Jun 2005

Play it again Sam
Have we heard this before?
"Governments at all levels can slowly nickel-and-dime you right out of business. You keep working and working and all of a sudden the government is your silent partner -- and the one who gets paid first." Fran Shane

Fran goes on in his article to state that the NLA has been fighting the "unfair" Gas Guzzler tax for more than a "decade". That operators should join in the fight by writing checks to the elected officials who are on the side of of limousine owners.

In the meantime back at the ranch, operators are handing over thousands upon thousands of dollars yearly for permitting fees that violate laws on the books!
Operators are being raked over the coals with high insurance premiums!

As with a certain political party, the NLA is out of tune with the needs of the small operators who make up a large portion of the membership.

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quote:

Originally posted by Dean Schuler:
I belong to a large number of associations and the INDUSTRY SPECIFIC REFERENCE PAGE in our portfolio has helped us land numerous accounts-which is the goal of being in business. When you bid on a large job or account association membership is a definite plus.

I agree, if you want to drop a check for the sticker & use of the fact the you belong to an association to further your business, write that check. If you're expecting more, forget about it!

I started this thread based solely on what the NLA propaganda machine was selling. And like the government entity that I am suing, the rhetoric has changed. The HCPTC has been rubber stamping applications over the past year with no infighting of intrastate providers vs. in county providers. The NLAs tune has changed to avoiding mentioning "helping eliminate" over-regulation as reasons to join.

Funny thing as I have been doing a lot of research on Federal Laws is that the towing industry jumped all over the preemption powers of USC 49. Not just in one state or area but numerous states & they have won! These haven't been big operations but small with the "backing" of their associations to take it all the way to the US Supreme Court. Walk the Walk.

I belong to a large number of associations and the INDUSTRY SPECIFIC REFERENCE PAGE in our portfolio has helped us land numerous accounts-which is the goal of being in business. When you bid on a large job or account association membership is a definite plus.

Solombrino's top 4 goals:
Gas Guzzler repealed
Reversal of a Dept. of Labor overtime wage rule
Raising money for the Endowment Fund
Increasing the size of the NLA membership
Source: LCT May 2005

Hell, with so many forum topics centering around the first 3 issues I can understand why these are priorities for the NLA! Makes me want to jump aboard. I'm sure the $1,300.-2,100. tax savings on new units is worth all that time, effort & $$$ being dumped into eliminating this tax. I'm sure the operators outside of Philly & in Houston feel the same way. We'll all ignore the unlawful local multi-regulation imposed by Taxi controlled extortionist so we can save a grand when we purchase that new unit.

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quote:

Originally posted by Wade Randolph:

Gunny I think Scott will give Fran a spanking if he ever responds to your post.

Wade,
I don't give a damn if these fools respond or not brother. All I know is over 4,400 eye balls have taken a gander at the truth! It'll take a hell of a lot of PR to combat the facts.

quote:

Originally posted by gunny:
"When issues arise, we sometimes find ourselves in disagreement with other transportation-related associations. In particular, the taxi industry has maintained distinctive regulatory goals that are not always aligned with the limousine industry."

As we persevered, major obstacles were put in our way by two other associations. The end result was that we had to amend out bill to include "black cars" and expand the definition of "taxi" - changes that were not necessarily in the best interest of the limousine industry.

These changes necessitated withdrawing stipulations that would have covered intrastate travel and eliminated the multiple permitting that is now strangling limousine companies all over the country." Barry E. Lefkowitz ltr dtd 28 Feb 2005

LCT April 2004
"Florida: An Example of Dedication and Commitment"The Florida Limousine Association honored with the "Association Award Of Excellence" and presented with a $1,000.00 check from the NLA to donate to a favorite charity. The article reports that this association continuously works at building better relationships with local and state governments.

As the State does not regulate I have no idea what relations they are building. On the local front it is transparently clear.

Connect the dots! A member of this association has filed suit against the Miami Airport with no backing.
This association president is one of 3 NLA board members located in Southern Florida.
A board member of the FLA is heavily connected to a very large "TAXI" operation.
All of this in one small portion of one State!

All of this power in one state yet no one has stepped up to the plate to tell the politicians that the regulation of 1/3 (a guess) of the counties does not protect the traveling public as a whole & demand action. That these associations have not fought the unlawful multiple permitting is just a clear indicator of the true stance of these leaders of the industry and the NLA.

Fran the scam is over!

the NLA

Gunny I think Scott will give Fran a spanking if he ever responds to your post.

"When issues arise, we sometimes find ourselves in disagreement with other transportation-related associations. In particular, the taxi industry has maintained distinctive regulatory goals that are not always aligned with the limousine industry."

As we persevered, major obstacles were put in our way by two other associations. The end result was that we had to amend out bill to include "black cars" and expand the definition of "taxi" - changes that were not necessarily in the best interest of the limousine industry.

These changes necessitated withdrawing stipulations that would have covered intrastate travel and eliminated the multiple permitting that is now strangling limousine companies all over the country." Barry E. Lefkowitz ltr dtd 28 Feb 2005

LCT April 2004
"Florida: An Example of Dedication and Commitment"The Florida Limousine Association honored with the "Association Award Of Excellence" and presented with a $1,000.00 check from the NLA to donate to a favorite charity. The article reports that this association continuously works at building better relationships with local and state governments.

As the State does not regulate I have no idea what relations they are building. On the local front it is transparently clear.

Connect the dots! A member of this association has filed suit against the Miami Airport with no backing.
This association president is one of 3 NLA board members located in Southern Florida.
A board member of the FLA is heavily connected to a very large "TAXI" operation.
All of this in one small portion of one State!

All of this power in one state yet no one has stepped up to the plate to tell the politicians that the regulation of 1/3 (a guess) of the counties does not protect the traveling public as a whole & demand action. That these associations have not fought the unlawful multiple permitting is just a clear indicator of the true stance of these leaders of the industry and the NLA.

Fran the scam is over!

the NLA

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18 April 2005 Orlando Sentinel
Fran Shanes reaction to "Drunk Limo Driver"
"If somebody had a DUI 15 years ago and has gone through treatment and has lived a straight life, are they never forgiven?"
"Business owners and insurance companies have an interest in making sure the drivers are safe, because these cars are expensive."

Hey Fran, initial reports is that this driver had 3 DUI's in 15 years. How about the State having an interest in making sure that all drivers are "safe"? How about the NLA supporting the push for a single "State Registration"?

The article states that "Officials representing limo companies have tried and failed to get statewide permits". Doesn't state why the failure! No backing from the NLA or larger monopoly companies and the NLA leadership in bed with the taxi industry in southern Florida.

I have contacted the reporter of this story and just as on this site, the dirty laundry is being aired out!

Good work Steve on getting the article posted!

A little food for thought or should I say some numbers to think about. The Nassau/Suffolk Limousine Association and the Long Island Limousine Association just combined forces for a "160" member strong organization. If someone is not sure where Long Island is located, just check the map of the US. See that tiny spit of land jutting out into the Atlantic? That's it. Now wipe out the western quarter which is Brooklyn & Queens.

Now what is the membership count for the NLA? Kind of makes their National membership figures look pathetic.

As a footnote for the "Regulatory" lovers out there. That 160 represents only a certain percentage of all operators on Long Island. No, zippo, zero regulatory agencies telling operators when to s---, shower and shave. No minimum pricing regulations, no year, make, model of vehicle requirements, no dress codes etc.. Do these operators have a secret formula that is missing in certain parts of the country ie., the south? One has to wonder.

Don't Know if I'll Get Slapped Into Moderation For This, But My Blood Is All Worked Up Again.

This is a public challenge to the President and the Executive Director of the National Limousine Association:

A small group of operators in the Tampa Area have taken on the Hillsborough Public Transportation Commission politically and in Federal Courts. The NLA has been contacted numerous times to assist in this effort. This same group of operators are utilizing this action as a springboard for a Florida State Registration of all non-commercial VFHs and drivers engaged in the VFH business. Our direct actions have resulted in the pending Florida Senate investigation of the HCPTC.

The described actions have been rebuted by the leaders of local associations and larger operators who have fought the idea of a Statewide registration for numerous years. The same individuals have encouraged the NLA not to enter the fray. These individuals claim that they represent the Florida Livery Industry.

The challenge I am issuing is for the above NLA individuals to come out in printed form and name the individuals claiming to represent the industry and against a State VFH registration to ensure that ALL Florida VFH operators are regulated in uniformity and to end the multiple permitting that strangles operators budgets and restricts travel options for the public.

And something to make the unlawful regulators and followers of such a little nervous. For those following the Terri Schiavo case here in Tampa, as you know President Bush signed into law an order to have the Federal Courts intervene. The Federal Judge (Whittemore) assigned the case who upheld the State Courts decision and was not swayed by the politically charged atmosphere is the same Judge assigned to my suit.

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Last week one of my cohorts, long time member of the NLA and hater of the TaxiLPA called Fran up to urge the NLA to jump into the fight going on in Tampa. Fran dropped the name of the local individual who opposes the NLA getting involved. As I was not privy to the conversation, the name of this individual will not be published. I will say that he holds a position in the local association, operates a service outside of the Tampa area, is opposed to a statewide licensing preferring hands in the pocket local regulation with multiple permitting fees and has been lambasted on our local site with no response. The NLA does choose its allies wisely.

Now a little explanation of regulations for VFH in Florida. Unless an area contains a major transportation hub, there is no regulation. Operators who do not provide return service from the transportation hubs and are located outside major metro areas are not regulated beyond obtaining an occupational license. There is no mandatory vehicle inspections in this state. Drops at most airports and cruise ports without permits are legal with no checks conducted to ensure that the provider has at a minimum commercial livery insurance. The requirement of a state license with some sort of livery tags will help to eliminate the truely illegal operators or at least put them on a equal playing field with the properly insured and safe vehicle ones. This is what local associations are opposed to and what my small band of cohorts are fighting for.

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"The NLA is very clear in its mandate: Forward those efforts that are in the best interest of the luxury limousine industry. Our goal is to limit the amount of regulation and interference by government entities and to reduce the cost of operating luxury limousines throughout the United States."

"When issues arise, we sometimes find ourselves in disagreement with other transportation-related associations. In particular, the taxi industry has maintained distinctive regulatory goals that are not always aligned with the limousine industry."

"A recent example is the "Real Interstate Drivers Equity Act" that was signed by President Bush in 2002.....

As we persevered, major obstacles were put in our way by two other associations. The end result was that we had to amend out bill to include "black cars" and expand the definition of "taxi" - changes that were not necessarily in the best interest of the limousine industry.

These changes necessitated withdrawing stipulations that would have covered intrastate travel and eliminated the multiple permitting that is now strangling limousine companies all over the country." Barry E. Lefkowitz ltr dtd 28 Feb 2005

Last weekend I was at Port Canaveral. There was a vehicle there with a no s--t "11" permits on the windshield. .

I'm sure JHJ will comment on the rest of the letters just received from the NLA.

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There is a larger issue here that you are missing Gunny. What kind of an asshole do you have to be to talk that way about people who you are trying to convince to become members, unless, of course, Hurricane Francis has faced reality and has given up on attracting new members.

quote:

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Originally posted by gunny:
NLA Quote of the day:

"There are two types of non-NLA members. The first are those to ride on the coattails of the can-do people. They don't pay dues and they're missing in action when solving political problems. They are free loaders while enjoying the benefits and success of NLA members".
F. Shane The LimoScene Jan/Feb 2004

Who's MIA?

Have to give Shane some credit though. There is a hint of truth in this statement. I actually had a sideline sitting operator tell me that he's holding of on obtaining permits until he sees where my case goes. My reply to him was, "what makes you think I'll make it public?"

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NLA Quote of the day:

"There are two types of non-NLA members. The first are those to ride on the coattails of the can-do people. They don't pay dues and they're missing in action when solving political problems. They are free loaders while enjoying the benefits and success of NLA members".
F. Shane The LimoScene Jan/Feb 2004

Who's MIA?

Have to give Shane some credit though. There is a hint of truth in this statement. I actually had a sideline sitting operator tell me that he's holding of on obtaining permits until he sees where my case goes. My reply to him was, "what makes you think I'll make it public?"

This message has been edited. Last edited by: gunny,

quote:

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Originally posted by Dr. Gelakeiwicz:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by gunny:


So the statewide laws are regarding insurance and filings. The local regulation is a permit fee? I'm a little confused with the issue being regulation not permit fees. What's the difference. If I have a permit in Jax and go to Tampa, they'll regulate (fine) me because I don't have a Tampa permit? That would be multiple permits (or whatever word you choose - certificate?) - wouldn't it?

You wrote
One county or several counties where major transportation hubs are located, imposing total operational regulatory measures on intrastate providers who just need to enter, load/unload and depart.

Can you elaborate on the total ops control?

Maybe a web pointer to the lawsuit and details?

Thanks.

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Best thing that you can do is visit www.hcptc.com and there are links to the lawsuits,the HCPTC 55 page rules book and application . Also visit the thread posted under regulations for a taste of what I mean. Certificates are business permits (though the newer out of county operators are prohibited from conducting business in Tampa) permits are vehicle permits (out of county operators receive restricted ones that limit them to ports of entry). After receiving these items than the operator must obtain business licenses and permits from the cruise port and airport. If a limo operator also has vans in his fleet than he must apply for 2 certificates. One for limos and the other for vans. The vans must meet certain marking requirements as a shuttle would look regardless of use. An example that I normally use is that say Citrus County some 70 miles from Tampa allows the use of minivans and Grand Marquis. Now a operator with brand new minivans and Grand Marquis applies to the HCPTC for permits so he can facilitate return transfers without being arrested. He will be denied because his brand new vehicles do not meet the requirements of the HCPTC. To obtain the permits, the operator would have to restructure his fleet. Not only does this violate Florida Law but also Federal Interstate Commerce laws and Federal Court opinions regarding interstate travel. By the way, mini vans are very popular in the Orlando and Port Canaveral area and that same operator can obtain permits with the same vehicles that Tampa denied. Again best to visit the site and read. Too much... Reason why I stated it's the regulation and not the permits. It's just how I feel. If all I had to do was fill out a 1 - 2 page form, provide proof of insurance, vehicle inspection and finger prints to prove I'm a good guy. I would use the permit fees as a tax write off. But, yet again there are only so many pockets that I'll line, only so many vehicle inspections, and only so many fingerprinting I'll go through.

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quote:

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Originally posted by gunny:

Dr G
Florida does have statewide laws. Every county decides and imposes regulation upon providers located within their respective county and if someone desires to tap the market of another county, then you have to play by their rules. In addition to 341 & 316 that also charges the FDOT with implementing safety measures, there is a statute that regulates insurance requirements. Quite simple, counties you can regulate businesses within your jurisdiction, counties you can not regulate providers engaged solely in intercounty transportation, DOT you regulate safety, providers you must have state mandated insurance or face stiff penalties. Unfortunately, everyone operates under their own tangent and it's taking a couple of us spending a sizeable amount of funds to have the courts enforce the laws.

By doing research of the history of VFH regulation within Florida, at one time the State regulated VFHs then threw the ball to the counties to regulate. Chapter 341 also contains specific dates that grandfathered protection to nonpublic sector buses with intercity routes. My theory is that this law was specifically written to afford protection from overzealous counties out to make a buck. As rural counties are growing and more demand for intrastate provision is needed, the more new operators there will be to question the unchallenged policies being imposed. The HCPTC is a Independent Special District (not supported by tax) that relies on revenue generated from fees and fines for existence. Bad setup for a market entry regulatory agency. Another Florida law that I utilize is Ch 163.566 Public Transportation whereas (10) defines a "Operator" as "not" a person furnishing transportation solely for his/her customers. The laws are fairly basic. Just ignored until someone went digging.

A Florida Attorney General Opinion regarding the Legislatures intent on CH 316 ends with, .....Whereas, nonuniform laws and ordinances are a source of inconveience and hazard to the motorist .............. and raise serious barriers to interstate and intrastate travel and commerce .....


For the readers, I can not emphasize enough that the issues are "regulation" not permit fees. One county or several counties where major transportation hubs are located, imposing total operational regulatory measures on intrastate providers who just need to enter, load/unload and depart.


And once again, when the President of the NLA quotes that the NLA was formed to protect members from unfair government regulation and they fail to answer the bell when sounded, I will make this information known. When I state that it's "political" that is a direct quote from Solombrino to me.

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So the statewide laws are regarding insurance and filings. The local regulation is a permit fee? I'm a little confused with the issue being regulation not permit fees. What's the difference. If I have a permit in Jax and go to Tampa, they'll regulate (fine) me because I don't have a Tampa permit? That would be multiple permits (or whatever word you choose - certificate?) - wouldn't it?

You wrote
One county or several counties where major transportation hubs are located, imposing total operational regulatory measures on intrastate providers who just need to enter, load/unload and depart.

Can you elaborate on the total ops control?

Maybe a web pointer to the lawsuit and details?

Thanks.

Only one or two have gone over 800 (they, too, are NLA threads), and most are far less than that - even that secret thread where all the porn photos are stashed because so few people know about it.

quote:

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Originally posted by gunny:
Any threads on this site that have hit 1,000?

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Any threads on this site that have hit 1,000?