The Limos.com Forum Has Moved!!!

One of the NLA stats is Chauffeurs hourly wage. This is a good one for Dean. Is this by the clock hour or by the contract hour? According to Michigan Law, you need to pay by the clock hour but most pay by the contract hour. Any thoughts??

Chauffeurqueen: Stop by any Major truck stop in your area, you can pick up a copy of the Federal rules and regulation booklet. I believe it runs about $5.00, there is a lot in there many people do not know. Just remember to the Fed., A limo is nothing moere than just a transportation device and all rules that apply to Buses, apply to Limos in most cases.

I'm from New England and never new until now that there really is a limit as to how long we can be on the road. Thank you for the informatoion, hopefully I can be successful in letting others here know about this.
This site is becoming more useful thaan I thought it could be.

Shad: I agree with you 100% but that is the way evey one I know of works their logs, (inter and intra state Motor Coach Bus Drivers)midnight starts a new day. As I said, Intrastate Limos do not fall under that rule and actually do not even have to carry a log if they are with in 75 miles of their home base. I never even left Oakland County.

My grip about IC is the Guys who are clearly running Employer/Employee shops but are telling their Employees they are IC just so they can get out of paying payroll taxes and carring workers Comp. I have NO objections to thoes who actually lease cars to the IC an follow the IRS guidlines. In Fact I do it myself with an operator who has a Medical Transport business. He leases a Limo from me when he needs one and I lease one to him when I need him to drive one for me. He keeps 100% of what he collects less what he pays me for the lease and fuel.

you can't split logs legally and safety comes before anything else. Hours rules only allow 15 hours a day 15*2=30 not 36 you are in violation no mater how you do it. My point is you grip about ic status but don't say no to safety violations.

If you split your log at Mid night, like most do, it is possible to do it legally. Yes I was a little over, but it doesn't really matter in a Limo. If it did, could you imagine all of the confusion it would cause in the industry.

Dave you go bonkers over i/c but you say you worked 36 hours in to days. What about dot regs that say thats a no no. One law and not another?

Uh Oh! I see a public spanking coming for those mentioned that fail to respond. Go get em' Dean! Once they know Digest's premier writer is on the case, they'll know they must respond or risk public ridicule......or at least industry ridicule.

David, E-Mail me your request and I will send it to the NLA, TLPA, UMA, and the DOT.

Dave, Ask Linda Moore ( lmoore@limodigest.com ) to do a nationwide survey on this issue. Digest cares deeply about the Industry and develops their own numbers and statistics with a full research team of experienced pros. Remember that sharecropper illegals, like criminals will always be with us. Focus on your business plan and execute it. That is the most important thing that you can do. Ignore all else and chose to prosper...

Keep plugging away Dave. I realize that we all need to vent too and what a perfect place to do it since we feel the pain with you. I realized that that's what you are probably doing is venting frustration at the system and the lack of enforcement of the "system". Our PUC has acknowledged to me that they have no resources to investigate complaints in Central California. They have enforcement in Los Angeles, San Francisco and San Diego. So, if someone is violating the law here in Bakersfield, CA (as they are!) there is no one to stop it from happening because of a lousy budget. If there was a sharecropper season, I would be the first one with a license and out for the hunt on opening day of the season. While they don't hurt me, they annoy me because I have to do all the hoops and hurdles and they don't! I'm done venting now.

I know I cannot change the world single handedly but I just keep pluging away. It is the same thing when I see a Limo with no Authority Sticker, I just cannot resits getting the licenses number, and turning it over to MDOT for action. What little that may be.

Several of my Colleagues have warned me that I could get hurt doing this because as you say, the ones doing it know they are in violation but if the legal Guys just let it happen, what do you think this would do the the Limo Industry.

I am glad to hear he got my e-mail and actually forwarded it on. It's also good to know he is your friend. The next step was to tell him you were going to complete the IRS Form for determination and you could not be responsible for any actions the IRS took because or your "inquiry". I do understand that you don't like the whole IC thing but you are never going to change it. The folks posting here at limos.com make up a very tiny, minute section of the industry and those there are still doing it the wrong way know they are doing it the wrong way and they will never stop until they get caught no matter how much evidence you produce here.

Jim: The Guy I am working for is a friend of mine. He is just the manager of the operation and really cannot change anything. I do thank you for contacting him, he did forward your message on to management. Nothing has changed however.

What I am trying to get across here is that there are a number of Operators in this area who are operating in the same manner, with Non approved Independent Contractor operations. These Guys are hurting the legal operators just as much as the Guy running with no Authority or improper insurance. They are violating the law, to have less expense and are undercuuting the legal Guys.

My purpose here is not just to get my friend on the right track, it is to get them all on the right track and to level the playing field just like we try to do when we see a Limo with out an Authority sticker.

I do make good money working for him because of the 20% tip. Last week during the all Star Game, I personally made $800.00 in tips alone. I did work 36 hours over the two days however.

Fair enough Gunny. As long as you are speaking from experience, I cannot fault your actions as I probably would do the same if the association didn't come help me battle. That's what they are supposed to do and obviously they let you down.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Limo Scene:
Gunny, are you an NLA Member? I am not NLA's biggest cheerleader but I can tell you if I want to speak to Fran Shane, I call, leave a message and he has always called me back within one hour since he took the job. If you are a member, you deserve the same respect.

Jim,
Don't even get me started on these clowns again. One way or another I was associated with the NLA since 1994 when I first started as a chauffeur. When I obtained my business license the 2d step was to join the NLA. When I started my fight against unlawful regulation I contacted Fran Shane numerous times via e-mail & not once did he reply with even a f---ing good luck. This year several cohorts & myself voted with our feet & disassociated with this self serving group of individuals.

Gunny, are you an NLA Member? I am not NLA's biggest cheerleader but I can tell you if I want to speak to Fran Shane, I call, leave a message and he has always called me back within one hour since he took the job. If you are a member, you deserve the same respect.

Maybe the reason for no response to Dave is because he is NOT a member and therefore entitled to no assistance or response from the NLA on any matter. As a very small operation, I feel they should serve their members immediately and to those who don't pay membership dues......oh well, you're not in the club!

As for the average hourly wage, it was comprised of a survey sent out by LCT (I believe) that asked what the average hourly wage was that each operator paid. All these answers were tabulated to come up with the national average hourly wage range. As Tony pointed out, there is no difference in "clock" hour vs. "contract" hour, either way the pay is the exact same hourly dollar amount.

Dave, you have been beating this drum for weeks. I did what you asked me to do for you there in your area with no response from your employer. But honestly, you stated here the rule of thumb and that you already know exactly what Michigan Law is in regards to paying by clock hour. You know that people are doing it wrong yet you are still working for them.

Am I missing something here? What are we trying to accomplish in this thread? What is it you want to know from the NLA and I will call on your behalf if I have an understanding of what it is. I am confused.

I have a request into the Michigan Department of Labor and Economic growth to e-mail me the law as it is written in Michigan and a few case studies to back it up. They usually do respond.

My intent with the orginal posting was to show that the NLA does not respond. Gunny figured it out.

David,

Did you really expect an answer from the NLA?

Unless it is a question presented by the news media that will put the logo in print, their time is too precious.

Give us a 50 State Study Dave.